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Discussion in 'Hip-Hop Central' started by Ixtlan, Oct 24, 2006.

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  1. Ixtlan

    Ixtlan emceeingain'tforyou...

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    He, again, is a superior songwriter.
    Which will account for the difference in career material.
    Jay has the superior catalog for a reason.

    Sure they do. See: Mary J. Blige and Outkast a few years ago.
    You don't think Blacks comprise 2 million members of the music-buying public?

    I know full well that the average Rap fan is white.
    What I'm telling you though is that Nas doesn't show up on the average White kids radar. You and I both know that.

    You're using the debut because you, yourself, realize that looking at their careers as a whole puts Nas at a disadvantage.

    That's common sense Kon.
    That's why marketing budgets are operating at well over a million dollars now because the market's oversaturated making it more difficult for artists to sell. There's simply too much to pick from. No excuses though. Jay's first record wasn't a dynamo sales-wise. There I've said it. Now, the moment I start talking career sales you'll tell me they don't matter...

    I'm guessing you didn't hear Pun's verse...

    Shameful. Outdone by Eminem and Scarface.
    *Snickering*

    Is that the best you can do?

    You're stooping now Kon.
    test
  2. Ixtlan

    Ixtlan emceeingain'tforyou...

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    I would argue that it's a classic despite his death.

    You demonize the word "commerce" like the recording industry isn't just that...an industry. They aren't on the playground or in a High School cafeteria Kon. In their world 'commerce' IS important.

    I never stated that one has to have the holy trinity to be worthy of "GOAT" consideration. I was just saying that that trifecta is awfully hard to come by in the Rap genre and a point that should be considered when evaluating Jay.

    It was a concept record. I'll give you that, but content alone it wasn't much different than its predecessors. And I think the critics, musicians and fans would tell you that album was classic for much different reasons.

    Hate it with all your might, but it's called the music business.
    It's the intersection of Art and Commerce. That's impossible to escape.
    You're penalizing Jay for being good at both sides of it.

    I doubt it has anything to do with Jay playing favorites.
    I think it's more the fact that he has vision as an artist and saw value in producers who other artists might not have (ie, 9th Wonder). He made that dude okay for the rest of the industry to deal with. That's another thing... Jay's career has been enabling to other artist's careers. After all, he resurrected Nasir's career...twice.
    test
  3. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    As seeing that we can go on forever, I'm done with this debate... (at least, for the next few months until you revisit it)

    I think we can both agree that you don't give Nas the same respect you give Jay Z... and past hate aside, I do respect Jay Z as a businessman (I'm an accountant... numbers make sense.) And unlike your hate of Nas, I do recognize Jay as one of the greats, just not the best.

    And finally, those were hip hop clubs I was in... "If I ruled the world" was HUGE during the summer of '96... where were you? Everytime the DJ played that song, the girls would hit the floor. This was all for before "booty shake/bounce/snap/crunk" became all the rage.
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  4. Ixtlan

    Ixtlan emceeingain'tforyou...

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    We could definitely go on like this forever...
    It's all good though. We'll let it rest for now...
    I'm sure the discussion will resurface after both of their new projects are released.

    Hate is much too strong a word to use Kon.
    Honestly man you got me confused.
    You're talking to a man that owns nearly every album Nas ever cut.
    I went to see him when he came to Kansas City.

    I was just walking around the crib, the other day cleaning house, reciting the lyrics to "Watch Dem..."

    Classic shit.

    I like Nas. I've followed his career from the very beginning.
    One of my favorite Nas lines dates back to the "Back To The Grill Again" posse cut with 3rd Bass.

    That crushes lines that kids are writing today.

    Lupe Fiasco openly admits that his entire album was patterned after IWW.
    Who's vocal mannerisms can be heard in his style though? Jay's...
    I'm fucking with you (it's truth though).

    Seriously though Kon...
    I like Nas.

    You're right. IIRTW was big. Very big.
    Lauryn made that record though. Not Nas.
    I'm fucking with you again (this is true too)...
    test
  5. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    But will you admit it though, when Nas releases the better album?
    I'm fuckin' wit you (it's truth though)


    But you speak as if he is a failure and vastly inferior to Jay Z... that is just not so.


    Of course, kids on this site slobber all over Lupe's use of inner schemes, which was popularized greatly by Nas.... 'cept Nas has a greater vocal presence.

    I know, I know... Kool G. Rap and Das Efx were using 'em, too... but even their flows were fixed for the most part... Nas used alternating schemes:

    red dot plots
    murder scenes, 32 shot guns
    regulate wit my dunns
    17 rocks gleam from one ring
    yo, i'm a let y'all niggas know one thing
    there's one life, one love, so there could only be ONE KING

    (the first shot to Biggie in their non-descript battle)

    Are you saying that because it's conversational?

    Jay didn't invent the conversational style of rhyming... KRS did (it's true)

    Lupe's vocal mannerisms are actually all his own... his timbre is light like Kweli's used to be, though.


    I don't deny that... just like you shouldn't deny that Foxy Brown made Jay Z.

    If it wasn't for her presence, RD probably would've never closed in on 200K even after the first year.

    Scooping Lauryn after The Fugees sold 10 mil in the US alone was very smart on Nas' part.
    test
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