Young or Cutler? McShay: Young is a wiser investment than cutler

Discussion in 'Sports Central' started by cyphamasta, Apr 4, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. cyphamasta

    cyphamasta New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,355
    from ESPN insider:

    Matt Leinart did not participate in the workout portion of last month's combine and USC's pro day is not until Sunday. Still, I've seen enough over the course of the last three years to confidently say Leinart is the top quarterback prospect in the 2006 draft.

    Far more difficult is deciding whether Texas' Vince Young or Vanderbilt's Jay Cutler should be the second quarterback to come off the board.

    Young seemed to slip into hibernation following his extraordinary performance in the Longhorns' upset victory over the Trojans in the Rose Bowl on Jan. 4. His absence from the highlights created a vacuum and Cutler has benefited. During the 11-week stretch between the Rose Bowl and last week's pro day workout in Austin, Texas, it was easy to get caught up in the hype tornado surrounding Cutler. After all, the only new information regarding Young's draft stock was an embarrassing Wonderlic score (15 was his best of two attempts).

    Meanwhile, Cutler clearly distinguished himself as the best quarterback prospect at the Senior Bowl. He had a solid all-around performance at the combine. He scored a 29 on the Wonderlic, ran the 40-yard dash in the high 4.7-second range, notched 23 reps on the 225-pound bench press and displayed the second-best arm strength of the participating quarterback prospects. The fact that he also wowed scouts with a strong passing performance in windy conditions at his Vanderbilt pro day on March 17 doesn't hurt, either.

    With that being said, it's critical to remember that the draft process is a marathon, not a sprint. Over the course of the last week I have gone back and studied five game films on both Young and Cutler while also analyzing Cutler's combine workout compared to that of Young's pro day workout. Although the decision is admittedly still not an easy one, I can make a stronger case for drafting Young than I can for Cutler.

    Unlike Leinart, both Young and Cutler project as developmental prospects in the NFL. Cutler has more traditional qualities in terms of his throwing motion and the scheme in which he played at Vanderbilt. He also possesses the stronger arm. However, Cutler's mechanics and overall decision-making skills must be improved upon before he's ready to compete for a starting job in the NFL.

    Although Young has as much or more work that needs to be done to his game, it's obvious to me that Young's upside is far greater -- and that trait is what sets these two apart. If I'm going to spend the type of time and money it will require to develop each of these unpolished prospects, I'd rather invest it in the individual who has the higher ceiling.

    Young's release point is lower than ideal and his throwing motion is unorthodox, but he gets rid of the ball quickly and at nearly 6-foot-5, he is tall enough to get away with the three-quarter release. Although he lacks elite arm strength like Cutler, Young can make all the necessary throws at the next level and has a stronger arm than several solid NFL starters.

    Young's accuracy as a passer has improved significantly over the course of the last two seasons. On film it is easy to witness Young's maturation in that department, and the statistics serve as confirmation. After completing just 59.2 percent of his throws as a sophomore in 2004, he completed 65.2 percent as a junior last season. It's not necessarily fair to compare statistics between the two because there are so many outside influences that play roles in those numbers, but football isn't always fair. The bottom line is that Young's completion percentage was 6.1 points better than Cutler's (59.1) in 2005, and that counts for something.

    There is no comparison when it comes to athleticism and playmaking skills. Cutler has good mobility and is a tough competitor, but Young, who has exceptional quickness and elusiveness for his size, is far superior in this facet of the game. Right or wrong, Young was not planning on running at his pro day workout and he still ran in the area of 4.5 seconds when talked into it by NFL brass at the last minute. Although he won't be able to run away from defenders as easily in the NFL, Young will still be a dangerous running threat who will keep defenses honest. Perhaps more importantly, he will develop into one of the league's best when it comes to generating second-chance passing opportunities with his feet.

    There is understandably some concern regarding Young's ability to hold up physically as a mobile quarterback who will take a lot more hits during a 16-game NFL season. After all, most mobile quarterbacks in the league are finding it increasingly difficult to stay on the field (see: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair and Ben Roethlisberger). However, Young is a big, strong and flexible athlete with no history of durability issues.

    Finally, Young might have bombed the Wonderlic, but most people who have met with both Young and Cutler would agree that Young is a greater leader and a more mature person. From what I can see, Young has more of the "it factor" that it takes to be a successful quarterback in the NFL.

    There's no question that Cutler has the physical, mental and intangible characteristics to develop into a good starting quarterback at the next level. It's just that Young has the potential to be great in those areas. That's why if I were forced to lay my career on the line and recommend one or the other to a general manager when his team is on the clock on draft day, I wouldn't hesitate to select Young over Cutler.
    test
  2. Ed E Brock

    Ed E Brock RM's version of this guy

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,576
    Cutler has gained tons of ground in the offseason while Young and Lienart's stock has continued to fall....

    only question is.... has cutlers stock increased enough and has young/lienarts stock fallen enough to push cutler ahead as the #1 qb?

    Some scouts even have Lienart as a 2nd rd pick..... yikes.





    Young is a project. I don't think projects make for top 5 picks. I don't think any team with a desperate need at QB is going to want young to come in and end his career immediately. Let's not forget, this guy's coach admits that he isn't coachable pretty much.....and has a hard time running an offense. He also played one snap undercenter... the rest from shotgun.... that's a big problem.

    In other words, it's going to take Vince 3 years before he even gets a remote chance at playing QB..... and I don't think ANYONE is dumb enough to pay top 5 draft pick money on a guy that will be holding a clipboard.




    Your draft order will still be:

    Lienart
    Cutler
    Young

    or

    Cutler
    Lienart
    Young



    Young finishes last for sure, unless the Texans let the hometown bias affect their draft.... I pray this happens.
    test
  3. toker

    toker My Money Grow On Trees

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    9,837
    are you that stupid that u cant read?? the article states Cutler is a project just like vince young

    and as a titans fan you should be the last ones to talk about drafting a developmental qb.. hello STEVE MCNAIR!!!!!!!!!!! he sat on the bench for pretty much 3 yrs

    hopefully u get your wish and your dumbass team takes cutler.. atleast youll have an excuse for your team sucking
    test
  4. Iceodu921

    Iceodu921 Resident Sports Genius

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    6,281
    only qb whose gonna be a star from this draft is leinhart.
    test
  5. Ed E Brock

    Ed E Brock RM's version of this guy

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,576
    ^ yeah... lol. Sure.


    Cutler is not as much a project as Vince Young toker. Be real.

    Vince Young is a black Matt Jones.



    and let me guess, Matt Jones isn't a project? They'll both be decent recievers... vince and matt.



    Vince Young is simply too fucking stupid to run a pro-style offense. Simple as that.
    test
  6. Iceodu921

    Iceodu921 Resident Sports Genius

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    6,281
    ur basing that on what?
    test
  7. LordHysider

    LordHysider Bawler

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,188
    how does fucking stupid qb beat one of the best teams in ncaa history on the biggest stage ever practically by himself?
    test
  8. cyphamasta

    cyphamasta New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,355
    exactly. he can't be that dumb. Dan Marino scored a 16 on the wonderlic. that test doesn't really measure your performance on the field.
    test
  9. Ed E Brock

    Ed E Brock RM's version of this guy

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,576
    Let's be real....

    did USC play ANY defense that night?....

    Vince Young ran to the RIGHT side of the field every single time.... they knew it was coming... yet didnt even play it. He can't run left....he never does...




    USC didn't play defense all night. Hell, they didn't have to play defense all year... the one team they did play that could put up numbers almost beat them (notre dame)....

    It's easy to look like a great defense when you're playing teams like Western Idaho Technical Univerity Program of the Arts...








    and what am I basing Vince Young being too stupid on?... Are you guys clueless?... Pay attention:

    1. His coach SAID he sucked when being coached. He was hard to coach, so you had to "let him do his own thing"..... Sorry, in the NFL... you don't just do your own thing. He'll be too dumb to run the offense.


    2. He scored a fucking 6 on the wonderlic.... a fucking 6..... If I scored a 6 on the wonderlic test (i had to take one for my current job).... I wouldn't have gotten the job. Do you understand how stupid that makes Vince?

    A job that requires no college ed.... requires you to do better than a fucking 6 in order to get the job.

    Why? Because if you can't get better than a 6.... you can't figure out how to turn the computer monitor on...


    3. Have you heard the guy talk????..... He mumbles. Sounds like a retard that can't fit words together or thoughts for that matter.






    He's a generic Michael Vick.... and we see how the Deluxe Edition works in the NFL.... this one won't even make it to the table.
    test
  10. Ed E Brock

    Ed E Brock RM's version of this guy

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,576
    Do you realise that a 16 is almost TRIPLE the score than Vince Young made?


    almost TRIPLE....

    and it's still a bad score.





    Middle schoolers should be able to atleast get a 16.
    test
  11. TeaBagger

    TeaBagger New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    375
    People make way too much of that Wonderlich test. When did this thing become the ultimate measuring stick of intelligence and football ability? I don't know where all this hate for Vince Young is coming from, but you can't ignore what he did on the FOOTBALL FIELD. What the fuck did Cutler do when it mattered? As far as I can tell all he did was perform well in workouts.

    Anyway, imo, most QB prospects are projects, you just never know what your gonna get. That's why you get guys like Tom Brady drafted at the end of the draft and then on the other end of the spectrum, Ryan Leaf taken within the first couple of picks.
    test
  12. Iceodu921

    Iceodu921 Resident Sports Genius

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    6,281
    im sorry but noone can sell me that a test can tell how good of a player someone will become.
    test
  13. the Prince

    the Prince New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    8,696
    cutler will be playing in the canadian football league in no time. he spearheaded sec bottom-feeder vanderbilt and couldn't guide them to a single bowl game.
    test
  14. Ed E Brock

    Ed E Brock RM's version of this guy

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,576
    The wonderlic wouldnt matter much.....

    FOR RECIEVERS....

    But when you're playing the "thinking man's position" qb... yes, Your ability to LEARN matters... A LOT.


    I know, fans of vince try to act like it's just a test.... and it is. However it reflects on how easy you are to be coached.

    Vince has already had a light shined in that area. He can't play in a pro-style offense. He never tried in college for that reason....




    And if you can't answer "what comes next in this pattern: + o ++ o + o ++__??".... You CAN NOT read an nfl defense.
    test
  15. Iceodu921

    Iceodu921 Resident Sports Genius

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    6,281
    IF that test was so important they'd just use this than the millions of other tests prospects are subjected to. Its not the end all.
    test
  16. cyphamasta

    cyphamasta New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,355
    on his second try V. Young scored a 16. the same score Dan Marino scored. yet Dan is in the hall of fame right now and holds a LOT of QB records. that test doesn't mean shit.
    test
  17. Ed E Brock

    Ed E Brock RM's version of this guy

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,576
    Dude...

    like i said...

    scoring a 6 makes that test VERY important.

    because if all you can manage is a 6... You'll be lucky to tie your own shoes in the locker-room.







    and yeah, he supposedly scored a 16 his SECOND try... I'm sure if Marino would've taken it twice he would've atleast been in the mid 20's....

    most players don't HAVE to take it twice.... Most players have an iq over .13.... Vince doesn't.





    This guy has a history for being an idiot. You guys can try to throw it out all you want... but at the same time you'll praise peyton manning for how smart he is...."that's why he's so good".... right?

    Watch NFL shows when Jaws and the other guys break down the plays.... when they show how the qb recognizes certain coverages and audibles or adjusts a route....


    you think Vince Young will be able to do that?.....


    Vince Young won't even be able to read the fucking jerseys.
    test
  18. toker

    toker My Money Grow On Trees

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    9,837
    so what about qbs that score in the 30s and higher?? they should be all pros right since their so smart they should be able to read everything pre-snap

    to bad thats far from the truth

    didnt last yrs 1st ick alex smith post a high wonderlic yet looked completely lost

    shit most nfl qbs cant read D's regardless of their scores
    test
  19. LordHysider

    LordHysider Bawler

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,188
    Vince's performance is in the fiesta bowl is why he's such a high prospect, thats where HE PROVED to the nation he's a great player, what does a fucking aptitude test proves about a QB, ABSOLUTELY nothing, why do u care about his score anyway, get off the man dick. let his performance on the field do the talking.
    test
  20. Ed E Brock

    Ed E Brock RM's version of this guy

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,576
    Yeah... and uh... alex smith was also a fucking rookie last year.

    most rookies do look lost when thrown into the fire like that... and for the 9ers? doesn't get much worse...



    Imagine how shitty Vince Young would do in a similar situation.










    again... act like you can just go in there, be athletic and be successful at the qb spot....
    test
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)