Wow. We WERE visted by aliens

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by TheBigPayback, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    sorry to budge in, i havent read the rest of your conversation, but modern religion is built on a very elaborate web of speculation as well.

    i dont know if this is relevant to your discussion but i thought id throw in my unsolicited 2 cents
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  2. Twamp

    Twamp proper weaponry

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    we were definitely visiting by something other than human. nobody can be this blind to the world and all it's glorious mystery.
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  3. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    i already touched on that. you know how i feel about religion.

    there are plenty of things we don't know; i'm not blind to mystery. i choose not to insert half-assed answers in its place to fill the void.
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  4. Twamp

    Twamp proper weaponry

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    sorry man, so let's just keep it simple and get to the point.


    do you or do you not think anything from outside of this Earth has ever had any influence in the world as we know (or not know it)?
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  5. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    my position, spelled out

    tl;dr:

    there's no reason to believe we were visited by aliens. i'm not saying it's impossible. i'm saying its unreasonable to decide to believe something which is completely unnecessary and sort of far fetched when you don't have any compelling evidence supporting it.

    long version:

    think about the size of the cosmos, the sheer vastness of it. from what we can tell, most of it is dead. if there is any life besides us in our solar system, it's almost definitely microscopic. the odds of a planet being dead are at the very least greater than the odds of it being habitable; so if we expand that view to the rest of our galaxy there's probably other reasonably developed life, but it's also probably dispersed and surrounded by many dead planets and solar systems. the other galaxies are astronomical distances away and are speedily heading away from us. the likelihood of ever encountering anything from those galaxies (with the exception of andromeda) seems nil.

    now think about the vastness of the time life has existed on earth. the lowest estimate is somewhere around 3.5 billion years. for most of this time, life was purely microscopic. only for the past 500 million years or so has more advanced life started to make an appearance. and yet 500 million years is still a really long fucking time. in this period of time, life on earth has been practically wiped out 5 different times in mass extinctions, only to repopulate with new creatures each time. in this 500 million year saga, only one species has ever developed the type of intelligence we hope to find in space, and that's us.

    yet even our intelligence is insufficient in this case, cause the aliens who come here would have to be light years beyond us technologically. there's no guarantee we'll ever make it into space; there are decent odds we'll be wiped out in one way or another before we reach that point. so think about the chances, for a second, that such a race would develop all the way to maturity and become a space faring civilization.

    how many such races could exist in the milky way, given those odds? now what are the chances they came here and left, without a trace, other than some stone monuments they helped to build?

    it would be remarkable if they came here, really thrilling. but you shouldn't be seduced by what you want to be true. either it happened or it didn't. that is why we turn to the evidence.
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  6. MissAndrya

    MissAndrya Evolution is what is.

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    Trade aliens for God, and that's a more compelling argument.

    If one already doesn't believe, then he is going to find evidence in support of WHAT he believes, going to choose to see it whatever way suits his needs.

    We are here, on earth, living and breathing, and you expect me to believe earth is the ONLY planet that contains life forms, that we are the ONLY living beings in this galaxy or the next?? Are you that small minded that you can't even consider it possible for there to be other inhabited planets such as ours?
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  7. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    why? it should apply to every claim.

    by default, we don't believe in things. you don't believe in god. presumably you don't believe in vampires either. you don't have any proof they don't exist. you're waiting for the evidence that they do. you should apply that standard across the board. it's the only sensible way to approach objective claims.

    of course it's possible to have a confirmation bias. but if you're serious about trying to apply an honest standard to what evidence there is and how strong a case is, you should be able to identify the strengths and weaknesses of a claim even if its one you wish to believe in. failing this effort, evidence is useless.

    if you're accusing me of ignoring evidence, then you should start providing some.

    nowhere have i suggested there isn't alien life in the universe or this galaxy. i thought i made it clear that my position is that its probable they exist, but not in great numbers, and there are vast distances involved. you're making a leap of faith from "it's probable that intelligent aliens exist" to "they came here."
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  8. Twamp

    Twamp proper weaponry

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    reggie jax, you bring up many good points but at some point in conversation some shit happens where you simply can't answer or say you cannot answer for it.
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  9. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    you're gonna have to be more specific.
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  10. MissAndrya

    MissAndrya Evolution is what is.

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    While it is true most of our beliefs stem from what we are taught to believe, this isn't always the case.

    I was taught to believe in God. I don't. There wasn't ANYTHING remotely believable in that story. Great fairytale though.

    Proof is different for everyone on a personal level. If someone prayed for money and found a $20, they'd be convinced. I'd chalk it up to coincidence. Ghosts I believe in because I have seen/felt/heard them. That's my proof, even if I can't explain them. Aliens, while I believe they exist, do need more viable proof overall. That doesn't mean that they should be excluded from the possibility of existence though. There is enough.....curious evidence (for lack of a better term) to warrant consideration.

    I never said anything about there being numerous other civilizations out there, although due to the expanse of the universe there is no reason not to consider it, I don't believe there would be many. As for them being able to travel here, why not? It's possible that millions of light years away they have different metals and other resources to work with, and quite possibly are far more superior in mind...therefore allowing for the possibility that they are far more advanced technologically.
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  11. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    we're just going to have to accept that we won't see eye to eye on this. evidence isn't a personal thing to me.

    that portion of my post was in response to this:

    this wasn't at all what i was arguing. so i decided to clarify for you what my position was.

    in regard to the vast distances i mentioned, i wasn't arguing it's impossible for them to come here. i was arguing it's pretty plausible for several advanced civilizations to exist in one galaxy without coming into contact with us. so making the leap from "there's good odds they exist" to "they came here" is an unreasonable assumption.
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