Why would God give rules to humans?

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by Geedorah, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,351
    no. you don't need experience. you have taste buds.

    the point is that you don't actually have control over what you like. you make choices based on what you like, but what you like is not under your control.
    test
  2. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    3,275
    We should probably define free will.

    Is it the ability to make our own decisions? So can a computer. While we might have a dozen more sub routines that conflict and over ride each other, are our decision abilities no more than glorified IF, ELSE, THEN codings?
    test
  3. Ass Napkin Ed

    Ass Napkin Ed DC - 19th & Benning Rd

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    1,654
    someone's watching the matrix trilogy on repeat
    a computer does not have a free will

    people who believe in predetermination - the idea of no self control - things will be what they are no matter what - is a self defeated, cop out, for being irresponsible and depressed. what determines the choices we make are self interest.
    test
  4. Geedorah

    Geedorah King

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    11,874
    And we are walking the same way we did 2000 years ago.
    What good is all that technology when cockroaches will outlive us.
    test
  5. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,674
    ^ fucking cockroaches.

    i've had one bad experience with whisky and i never tried it again.

    even if i smell something that smells similar to scotch or whisky, i almost gag.

    how can you prove that though?

    i chose to like something, so if i chose it, it's obviously under my control. no?

    :numaan:
    test
  6. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,351
    if you can prove it, it would be through neuroscience. but i wasn't approaching it from that angle, i was appealing to your common sense. i'm a little surprised at your response. can you name me something you have chosen to like?
    test
  7. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,674
    everything i like has been a choice, which is directly related to my experiences.

    i could've chosen pop as a genre i liked, i didn't - hip hop was the choice.

    and i've been listening to that choice since i was a kid.

    i choose to like girls over boys, that's a choice too.

    if i'm at a clothing store, i choose the clothes i like, and i buy them.

    it's not already stored in my brain that i'm going to buy a politix trench coat.

    i choose not to buy skinny jeans because i don't like them.

    why is that so surprising that i choose what i like?

    :numaan:
    test
  8. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,674
    then it all boils down to the question of.

    do i like dark hip hop lyrics because i am dark minded.

    or am i dark minded initially, which is why i like dark hip hop lyrics.

    :numaan:
    test
  9. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,674
    i guess it all boils down to the question of -

    do i like dark hip hop lyrics because i am dark minded.

    or am i dark minded initially, which is why i like dark hip hop lyrics.

    :numaan:
    test
  10. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2012
    Messages:
    3,275
    You do realize both those questions are exactly the same, right?

    Dark mind = like dark lyrics

    is the same as

    Like dark lyrics = dark mind.

    I think what you MEANT to say was, "Do I like dark lyrics because I have a dark mind? Or does exposure to dark lyrics make my mind dark?"
    test
  11. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,351
    because your brain must work very differently from mine if what you're saying is actually true.

    so when you hear a pop song, you willfully decide whether or not you're going to like it, or do you just enjoy it or not enjoy it and then determine that you like it based on that enjoyment or lack thereof?

    same with choosing to like women. do you actually decide "i'm going to find this girl attractive," or do you just see a girl and find her attractive?

    either you aren't really tracing your preferences down to the root or our brains are wired completely differently.
    test
  12. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,351
    i mean, as a follow up question i could ask why it is that the vast bulk of humanity seems to have very similar preferences? e.g. why do so many people find members of the opposite sex attractive? is that just a coincidence or does instinct inform our preferences?
    test
  13. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Messages:
    25,674
    if i enjoy it, i'll like it, if i don't, i'll choose not to like it.

    i don't see the big deal about this, it seems pretty simple to me.

    are you mindfucking me?

    i see a girl and find her attractive, so the latter.

    i just think i was missing the entire point of the questions.

    the one that hit home was the women one lol.

    wouldn't have a clue, i'm hoping you have an answer to this?

    that's what i meant.

    poor choice of words on my part.

    :numaan:
    test
  14. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,351
    is there any circumstance in which you'll not enjoy it and still choose to like it? because if not, then it would seem that you're not choosing not to like it. there's no choice to be made, you simply don't like it because you didn't enjoy listening to it.
    it is pretty simple. i think it has implications which might not be as obvious, however. if your choices are ultimately determined by inclinations which you didn't actively decide to have in the first place, then theoretically a complete enough understanding of those inclinations should make it possible to predict what choice you will make in any given situation. this means that even though you technically have the ability to act differently than you do, the fact that you don't is determined by factors that ultimately aren't under your control and have already been set into motion.
    i think its undeniable that instincts shape the way we behave, and those instincts have been shaped themselves by factors which we had no role in creating.

    i do believe we have autonomy in the practical sense of the word, however our consciousness is not what is ultimately in control of it. it is a dynamic system which relies on mechanisms that lie under the hood of our conscious experience.
    test
  15. Riz

    Riz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    8,537
    If you found a female extremely attractive and then discovered she was your biological sister, would you still be as attracted her afterwards? I don't think most people would be and that implies some level of choosing what you're attracted to.

    It seems to me we're continuously presented with situations that have competing instincts/desires/whatever and "free will" is determining which one to favour - although of course that choice is never completely free. For example, you could argue that you're not choosing to find incest unattractive in my example above and so there's no choice involved either way, but that's why the topic of free will is pointless IMO. The rabbit hole never ends.
    test
  16. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,351
    i definitely don't think i choose not to find my sister attractive. i don't see how that is any different from not finding her attractive because of her looks.
    test
  17. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,351
    that makes sense, but wouldn't that just be called "will"?
    test
  18. Riz

    Riz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    8,537
    It's a hypothetical example of finding out someone is your sister after you've already found them attractive (maybe they were given up for adoption at birth, for example). That's a different thing to not finding your sister who you grew up with attractive.

    The point is that your drive to behave in a socially acceptable way would be in conflict with your biological drives. And you would have to make a choice between those two things.

    Also, what is it that you think is causing you to instinctively not be attracted to your sister (assuming she's not a hideous monster)? A lot of people get into relationships with members of the opposite sex who look like themselves. So what is it that stops the vast majority of people from finding their siblings attractive, when there's no real reason to assume a decent proportion of people wouldn't?
    test
  19. Riz

    Riz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Messages:
    8,537
    What's the difference between will and choice? Unless you're contrasting will with free will, in which case I agree.
    test
  20. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,351
    i couldn't tell you, it could be a simple matter of adhering to a taboo, but if it were really a choice then theoretically i should be able to reverse that decision if i wished. i don't think that i can. maybe that's because i don't really desire to, but once again i should be able to choose to desire it.

    and i'm not actually denying that we make choices. but using your model of competing instincts/desires/whatever, wouldn't the strongest one simply win out? is that different from a computer program or any other logical structure?
    test

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)