Why, white man? WHY

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Joro, Mar 8, 2009.

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  1. SIZZLA

    SIZZLA New Member

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    AND IF YOU DRESS UP LIKE/ PRESENT YOURSELF AS A COP WITHOUT PASSING THEIR TEST AND GAINING THEIR APPROVAL, THEN YOU ARE WHAT? COMMITING A CRIME RIGHT?:screwy:


    JUS SHUT UP AND LEARN SOME RESPECT... DAS YO PROBLEM! YOURS AND THOSE LIKE YOU. YOU TAKE KINDNESS AS WEAKNESS. JUS BECAUSE WE SHARED HIP-HOP WITH YOU ALL, YOU FEEL ITS YO RIGHT NOW TO COME IN AND CLAIM IT AS YOUR OWN... CULTURE BANDITS! EUROPEAN PIRATES.
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  2. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    Why do you think that dressing up like a cop is considered a criminal act but dressing up like the member of a different gang is not?
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  3. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    Furthermore, not once have I claimed "hip hop as my own." I challenge you to show me where I have.
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  4. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    LOL...you're white, so I understand where you're coming from. It's always been like this. The Greeks, the first whites to start thinking, and who are revered by the white world as the founders of everything civilized and refined, were actually pathetic babblers struggling to comprehend the godly precepts of the Egyptians, whom they were mimicking. And so, if you've ever read someone like Plato, you'd know that they revered all things Egyptian.

    Like your forebears, you are a pathetic babbler. But unlike them, you've existed under the illusion of white supremacy for so long that you've forgotten who you're talking to.

    Here, an example of your babbling:

    You haven't? I don't want to copy and paste all the babbling, but don't you remember all that shit you talked about how if you buy a CD, you then become the owner of that CD and the ideas on it, and are therefore free to make copies of it and resell those copies for profit, if you so choose?

    You were talking about the transference of ideas, how they don't belong to anybody, and you call hiphop an idea - thereby revealing your ignorance...and your whiteness.

    But no, hiphop is not a mere idea. And no, you cannot claim ownership of it.
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  5. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    What does this have to do with whether or not I've "claimed hip hop as my own"? This is entirely non sequitur, as your premise and conclusion do not follow.
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  6. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    What you're asking me is, "What does my argument have to do with my argument?"

    You don't remember your justification for culture stealing? Here, in your own words (and make sure you read your final paragraph, I've put it in bold):

    So, according to this nonsense, you have acquired "sole rights" to our culture because we have "freely" given it to you.

    Now you say you've never made any claims.

    You are a babbling fool - fooling no-one that matters.

    *edit* Before you come in and bullshit, saying, "Well I never actually said *I* claim hiphop"...what you were arguing is that it's ok to do so (and you even used the first person in your metaphor, "...*I* bought the CD, *I* own the CD, *I* can resell it.) That's what SIZZLA is against. That's what I'm against.
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  7. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    What I'm asserting is that my argument is not what you claim my argument to be.

    This is precisely what you've been doing.

    Your conclusion is also a non sequitur, for it does not follow from the premise. What I actually stated, as you quoted above, does not imply that I have or have not claimed hip hop as my own. You can intentionally misrepresent my position all you want, but refuting that misrepresentation (which you haven't even managed to do) will do nothing more than give the illusion that you've refuted my actual position.

    You'll notice that every mention of myself in the scenarios that I've posed has been deliberately used in a purely hypothetical sense, because I have not claimed that hip hop is a part of my culture, nor have I claimed to be a part of hip hop. I enjoy listening to some of the music from time to time, and I acknowledge and respect its origins, but I have not claimed it as my own. However, you are correct in one sense. If I were to claim hip hop as my own, there would be no force you could legitimately use to prevent me from doing so. If I claimed hip hop as my own, I would not be stealing anything from you, or anyone else, for the simple fact that you would not thereby be deprived of anything.

    You can be against it all you like, but the fact remains, once an individual has been exposed to the elements of a culture, it is their choice whether to embrace or discard those elements. Neither you, nor SIZZLA, nor anyone else, has a modicum of control over whether or not someone else chooses to embrace the culture of hip hop.
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  8. Wrecktify

    Wrecktify New Member

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    If anyone thinks that hiphop is owned by one racial group...you're a fool. Everybody always wants to turn this into a black/white/racial ownership issue. Hip hop beats..fundamentally..are percussion driven which is derived from domestic African slaves. You can find different musical instruments and styles incorporated into hiphop related to trance, jazz music, latino music. Contrary to popular belief, the Jazz revolution was headed by musicians both white and black. Look at all the sampling that goes on in hiphop music...I've seem sampling of "white" music...latino music etc. Part of what made Onyx great was that they found a middle ground between Metallica type rock and rap music. Rock and hiphop make a group couple. Rock stars have that sound that they are pissed off...while providing catchy, angry rap lyrics to a heavy metal...guitarish type beat.

    Hiphop might seem dominated by African Americans because a majority of time..that is all you see is a black person rapping. But fundamentally..from a musicians standpoint....hiphop is another melting pot genre of music. You don't find many white rappers because the target of rap is usually deep, inner city African Americans. Don't be so narrow minded. Music is a cultural melting pot....no style of music developed independently of another. Just like you can't have Rock without percussion...percussion..like I said..originates back with African slaves.

    YouTube - Onyx ft. Biohazard - Judgement Night

    Onyx ft/ Biohazard: Judgement Night

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zo7FpI8MmmE <---Common, universal mind control. Has a trancy type beat. This song always makes me want to dance.

    Great songs.
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  9. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    Percussion doesn't come from African slaves.

    Percussion comes from AFRICANS in AFRICA.

    HipHop is black. Jazz is black. Rock n Roll is black.

    All whites have ever done is graft themselves on to black culture, as they just don't have the soul blacks do, and can't come up with the shit themselves.

    Keep trying to justify it "intellectually".

    I know, I know, it sux to be white. So you have to bash blackness. Even tho your head is swimming with black ideas, like hiphop.

    "hiphop is colorless!"...LOL...justifying your attempted escape from whiteness.
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  10. Wrecktify

    Wrecktify New Member

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    LOL@you saying percussion doesn't come from African slaves but then you say it comes from AFRICANS in Africa. Dude, it's the same thing..Did you not study history? Slaves would beat on drum-like instruments to singing and lyrics that often rhymed etc. I have read tons of books about this and have taken many African American history courses. Not only are you ignorant to the history of music..but your thinking is horrifically subdued by your racist standpoint.

    Your assumptions about my race are also wrong....I am black.

    What is this soul that you speak of? Everybody has their own "swagger" in the industry..whether it's rock, hiphop, jazz..etc. Soul is totally subjective anyway. BTW, you need to research Jazz a little as well...whites have a strong influence on Jazz as well back in New Orleans roots days. Don't get me wrong, I value my heritage..but I am not ignorant enough to write off the contributions of others as you appear to be doing in this argument.

    It "sux" to be racist and ignorant. Your mind is bound by chains my brother.
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  11. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    That's the problem. You stopped being yourself and went to the system of white supremacy to learn how to think.

    You took "many African-American history courses" and they told you that all you ever were was a fuckin slave, and you bought it. (case in point: saying percussion comes from "African slaves" or from "Africans in Africa" is NOT the same thing.)

    They indoctrinated you, justifying their methods of culture stealing, also smudging the facts...and now you believe bullshit like whites were instrumental in the founding of jazz.

    What is this soul I speak of? You have it. Look inside yourself...not the whiteman's books. He'll only lie to you about it.
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  12. Wrecktify

    Wrecktify New Member

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    So you're saying that college is some system set up by white supremacists? I was a thinker before I decided to go to college dude. College was a place where I learned a lot about my interests and my individuality. College is far from some "trap" set up by racist whites.

    Wrong. Through courses and my investigation..I learned about slavery, music etc. Africans in Africa were a part of the slave trade. Not all native Africans in slavery were taken away from their mainland. Like I said, you need to study your history a little more.

    Jazz Music | All About The Origins Of Jazz Music
    Jazz Music

    Although initial contributions were primarily by African American males (Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker), significant contributions were made by Caucasian American Males (Benny Goodman, Jack Teagarden, Bix Beiderbecke), and American Women (Mary Lou Williams). Europeans (Marian McPartland?, Django Reinhardt), Latin Americans (Chano Pozzo, Antonio Carlos Jobim) and Asians have made Jazz a world music.

    In fact, New Orleans, Louisiana is the place where Jazz first began between 1850 and 1900 by African slaves as well as the freed people of color. The first style of Jazz music was known as Dixieland.

    Jazz music itself is an innovation of African, Impressionist, Spiritual, Hymnal, Blues and Blue Grass hillbilly music simultaneously combined into a music masterpiece.

    Direct quotes...Educate yourself.

    You need to let go of all that suppressive racial tension.
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  13. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    1) Yes, I'm saying the system of "higher learning" (like the society itself) was setup and is controlled by white supremacists.

    2) Yes, some Africans were born into slavery. But listen stupid, drums come from Africa, not "african slaves".

    3) As far as Jazz, you need to read that quote again, slowly.
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  14. SIZZLA

    SIZZLA New Member

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    cracka...
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  15. SIZZLA

    SIZZLA New Member

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    first off Wreck. jazz and all forms of Black/Afrikan/Adamic expression is and was whole prior to any outside "influence." so this influence is not imprtant at the least. and no, a Afrikan placed into american slavery is different from an Adamic Original Man. our history, our culture trinkled over into american society, it did not start here. it has an ancient history desrving of its props; its propper place within the evolution of the human spicies. so, dont get it twisted, our culure is in and of itself complete without anything added or grafted on to it. it is... our story did not begain on the shores of the americas during the trans atlantic. we are an ancient civilization, the rightful rulers of the earth, again, dont get it twisted. we are the common thread that ties the past with the present and the future. we are eternaL. ETHER!. DARK LIGHT! ADAM/ATOM... BEN ADAM- THE SON OF MAN... ALPHA-OMEGA, THE SON OF GOD...
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  16. Wrecktify

    Wrecktify New Member

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    African slaves ----> come(decendants)from Africa----->African slaves invented percussion----->therefore, percussion comes from African slaves.

    Do you understand now? Don't resort to calling me names because you're finding it hard to suppress my thinking with your racist viewpoints.

    In fact, now that I think about it...early forms of percussion may have started with the early Native Americans as well. Yes, we have invented some wonderful things (the traffic light, etc)..but with music...it's a little different.

    Concerning "higher learning", get your head out of the trap man. I think a person like yourself would actually benefit from some form of college. Stop using the white man as an excuse for being too lazy to try in life and too lazy to even think about what you are saying. Your mind is so enshrined in hate that you are not able to think past what you believe "the white man" is doing to you. No, it's YOUR thinking that is holding you back. I acknowledge that Caucasians have done some pretty bad things to our ancestors, but, it's time to let that go. I also know that white racists still exist(they're in the workplace, they're everywhere)....but...you're no better than them coming into this thread spewing your hate and ignorance. That's what "they" want you to do. They, meaning the racists. They want you to be preoccupied with hate and anger so that you do not have the mindset and where-with-all to advance. Using the white man as an excuse not to get a higher education is the most ridiculous, lazy, retarded excuse I have ever seen..for not having the balls to try in life.

    And to the person above calling me a "cracka", I'm black.
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  17. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    Wreck, you should be shot. Put out of your misery.

    Shot not only as an act of mercy, but as an act of defence.

    Cuz when the shit hits the fan it's niggaz like you who can infiltrate a meeting.
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  18. Wrecktify

    Wrecktify New Member

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    Is this the best response that you could come up with? When shit hits the fan, I'm going to continue using the very thing that I've spent years upon years developing...my mind. While "niggaz" like YOU resort to violence and threats to avoid admitting that you've been mentally defeated. Listen, I support my African American community but I am also down to help others who also support me. Whether they are black, white, latino, asian..whatever. There are alot of good, honest people in this world and life is to short to be imprisoned by that old mindset that you are embracing.

    You can think of me as a person who is AWARE that racism exists...I am AWARE of my past and my AWARENESS always prepares me for the future. I've dealt with racists on the job, going through college..going through life. I'm not going to let the racist "minority of the ignorant" dictate my overall perception of people. When it comes to people in general, I trust them but keep my distance until they prove otherwise. Blacks will knife you just as hard as a white, Latino or Asian will.

    My brother, you are YOUR OWN enemy. Your paranoid, racist thoughts are definitely holding you back in life. The only "shit that will hit the fan" is when you realize that you've wasted X-amount of years of your life allowing a fabled adversary to dictate your success or failure in life. You will realize that you've missed out on some great people in life because you decided to segregate yourself from certain racial groups. Get out and mingle...talk to people...If they act racist or don't like you...who gives a shit? The U.S population is 306,170,594 ppl and increasing. Say you meet 100 racists tommorow...thats only 0.00000033% of the population. Free your mind and get out and live beyond this shit dude. Your thoughts and fears are outlandish.
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  19. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    Well, this was a reasonable, productive discussion until SIZZLA got involved. So, ops normal then.
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  20. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    Yea I know your type.

    When shit goes to "hell" - "hell" being the chaos necessary to bring down white rule - n!ggers like you will be on a megaphone, "Calm down brothers and sisters! We musn't be violent! Violence never solved anything!"

    And then your "open mind" which allows you to be "multicultural" and to "help others" will lead you to help THE POLICE, should you get knowledge of some violent black men planning any sort of civil disturbance.

    No, I'm not the one who is "mentally defeated." You are....and not at my hands.
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