Why, white man? WHY

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Joro, Mar 8, 2009.

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  1. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    I would appreciate an explanation from the caucasian brothers who are on this site.

    RM.com is a hip hop web site. I hope we can agree that hip hop is a black art-form. As a black man, I welcome you to appreciate and contribute to the milieu.

    I'm wondering as to why, as hip-hop conscious individuals, some of you feel the need to come to a hip-hop website and defame Blackness. You come here and defame its history, its politics, its anthropology etc...

    If I went to a rock-and-roll website, I wouldn't see blacks on there defaming whiteness (even though rock-and-roll is originally a black art-form.) What I would see is rockers talking to each other about how much greater rock-and-roll is to rap.

    Why, white man?
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  2. Bar nigga

    Bar nigga 314 STL Ancient of daze..

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    tap dancin' for whitey again aye joro?
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  3. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    Wassup brother Bar-to-the-nigga. This thread wasn't addressed to you, yet you're all over my nuts. You're obviously a fag. But you need not get offended, because I'm tolerant.

    So, white man....Why?
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  4. snowy

    snowy 39k Rap Song Music Folder

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    To me at this point in time its an equal opportunity art form. Its not like there werent white boys involved in its history. And the biggest problem is now its equal in its bashing respect too, you have just as many black kids listening to the ass end of the music as white people. The reason white people like me listen to it has nothing to do with being popular or cool. I just love it. My friends have all pretty much moved on to the next fad, ive gone deeper into the underground than 80% of this site looking for artists that inspire me. So dont act like the black kids are the only ones appreciating the music and the white kids are the only ones hating on it. Dont assume because the person is acting like a moron they are automatically white, its not like you cant find an uneducated hip-hop wise black kid these days.
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  5. Look im Gangsta

    Look im Gangsta New Member

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    your probably white
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  6. Namor

    Namor Prodigal Sun-god

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    I think he's more wondering how all these white boys on here can love hiphop music and talk shit about blacks in general in the same breath...

    its like me studying kung-fu in china while talking shit about chinese culture...
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  7. sr420det

    sr420det New Member

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  8. sr420det

    sr420det New Member

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  9. Your Idol

    Your Idol ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

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    people make fun of you when you act like a retard.
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  10. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    what he said .....
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  11. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    No one can own an art form. With that said, speaking for myself, I respect the origins of the particular art form that is hip hop, and I (generally) refrain from making disparaging remarks about any particular group of people. Objective observations are another thing entirely, if they prove applicable to a particular subset of the human race.
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  12. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    Valaticus:

    Hiphop is more than a mere art-form. It is a culture, it is a way of life.

    You cannot have an understanding of hiphop, and a love for it born out of that understanding - as these whiteboys on here claim to - and disparage blackness.

    Either

    1) You are a liar, in hiphop just to infiltrate your enemy, or

    2) You are a conflicted whiteboy, struggling to come to terms with your whiteness.
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  13. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    False dichotomy.
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  14. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    There's a third possibility, if you're a whiteboy who claims to understand and love hiphop yet disparage blackness...

    3) You don't understand hiphop. You only think it's "cool" because you're titallated by the sex and violence.

    This third possibility I'm inclined to believe is the most common.

    Volaticus:

    Why is it false? Again, Hiphop isn't simply music. Please clarify your position.
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  15. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    The burden of proof in on you here.

    1.) I challenge you to substantiate your claim that I am a liar, or even to impugn my credibility or honor in any fashion.

    2.) I challenge you to substantiate the claim that I am "in hip hop" at all, or;
    2.a.) that I have any "enemies" that I am attempting to "infiltrate."

    3.) I challenge you to substantiate that I am "conflicted" or;
    3.a.) that I am a "whiteboy," or;
    3.b.) that I am in any fashion "struggling to come to terms with ... whiteness."

    4.) I challenge you to substantiate the claim that I have in any fashion "disparaged blackness."

    5.) I challenge you to substantiate the claim that I "don't understand hip hop."

    6.) I challenge you to substantiate the claim that I have placed any value judgments whatsoever upon the music or culture of hip hop, or even where I have claimed that hip hop is "cool."

    7.) I challenge you to substantiate the claim that I am "titillated by sex and violence," and how that would be a contributing factor for the unsubstantiated claim that I think hip hop is "cool."

    I would be quite surprised if you are resourceful enough to substantiate more than one of these claims.
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  16. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    Volaticus: I never made any of these claims concerning you. When I addressed anything to you personally, I prefixed my statements with a colon, ":", and then typed your name. Those three catagories I listed were a description of ...well, I'll quote myself if you don't care to go back and read:

    "You cannot have an understanding of hiphop, and a love for it born out of that understanding - as these whiteboys on here claim to - and disparage blackness.

    So you see, well I hope you see, that those three catagories I listed were a description of whiteboys who claim to love hiphop, who spend a lot of their time on a hiphop website, and disparage blackness.

    You took it upon yourself to defend them, and at first you did so in a cogent way. I countered you, in a way I believe was also cogent, but you took it personally, thereby revealing that you are most probably white - so you substantiated claim 3.a.) for me, even though I never made that claim.

    I never made ANY claims of you...but just for fun...

    In your first post, you called hiphop an "artform", and wished to seperate it from blackness. (Atleast you were mindful enough of its blackness to pretend to respect its "origins".) But, as you acknowledged in your third post, hiphop is a CULTURE, a way of life, and therefore is inseperable from blackness. Hiphop not only is a culture, but also a movement - with force.

    If you understood what hiphop was, you wouldn't think it possible to love it and simultaneously disparage blackness.

    Again, you sought to seperate hiphop from the people, thereby judging its value, however erroneously.

    ****

    So that's 3 claims I never made (3.a.,5.,6.), yet nevertheless substantiated.

    Now I challenge you to play my game and respond intelligently to my observations. Remember: They don't necessarily apply to you.
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  17. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    This is roughly how I read your comments:

    I saw my handle, followed by "you," "you," "you," and assumed, not entirely unreasonably so, that you were referring to me in your examples. However, now that you've contradicted this assumption, I can see how I inadvertantly had taken your comments out of context, and ascribed a different meaning to them than was intended.
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  18. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    I never made this claim. I said that a group of individuals cannot own an art form, because an art form has no material existence in reality. For that matter, neither does a culture have material existence in reality.

    In our current context, art forms and cultures are concepts which we use to describe certain artistic methods often (but not exclusively) utilized by individuals with certain sociological traits (not exclusively limited to ethnic makeup,) and the group of individuals themselves who possess those sociological traits. These things are conceptual, they have no material existence, and thus cannot be owned by an individual or group of individuals.

    It is true that the originators of the art form and culture (perhaps it might more accurately be called a subculture, but let's not split hairs) of hip hop were largely (but not exclusively) of African descent, but considering that art forms and cultures (and subcultures) are not material things, as they are conceptual and do not have objective existence outside of our minds, they cannot be owned, bought, sold, given away, or transferred.

    Nevertheless, I have not made the claim that it is possible to simultaneously "disparage blackness" and "love hip hop." as you suggest I did.
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  19. Volaticus

    Volaticus Anarcho-Capitalist

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    Furthermore, art forms and cultures do not possess a static and unchanging conceptual existence, even in our minds. To illustrate this point, I challenge you to define hip hop at the time of its origin, and now.
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  20. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    Really? Please, let's have an honest exchange. Your first post was quite clear:

    That's what you wrote. But since you wish to backtrack, that's fine. I'm happy you agree with me.

    No? A little history lesson in the transference of culture.

    The ancient Egyptian God of wisdom was Thoth (where we get "thought" from). Thoth was represented as a man with the head of an ibis owl.

    This deity, along with countless others, was adapted by the ancient Greeks. Their goddess of wisdom was Athena, a woman who was always accompanied by an owl.

    This is an example of the transferrence of culture. Something Egyptian was appropriated by the Greeks. Just because it was a "mental concept" doesn't mean it wasn't something tangible - it affected every aspect of Egyptian life, religious as they were.

    The Greeks loved and admired it so much they had to have it. However, the Greeks had the sense to admire and revere all things Egyptian, not disparage them.

    There are Greeks in hiphop today, appropriating shit for themselves, but they don't have the sense of their ancient forebears.
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