Why The Christian God Is Impossible

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by snowy, Jan 20, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. snowy

    snowy 39k Rap Song Music Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    4,590
    Found this old essay. Found it on point.

    Chad Docterman: Why the Christian God is Impossible

    Introduction

    Christians consider the existence of their God to be an obvious truth. This assumption is false, not only because evidence for the existence of this presumably ubiquitous yet invisible God is lacking, but because the very nature Christians attribute to this God is self-contradictory.

    Proving a universal negative


    Many Christians, as well as atheists, claim that it is impossible to prove a universal negative. For example, while we may not have evidence that unicorns or dragons exist, we cannot prove that they do not exist. Unless we have a complete knowledge of the universe, we must admit the possibility that somewhere in the universe, there might be such creatures.

    But the claim that omniscience is needed to prove a universal negative presumes that the concept which we are discussing is logically coherent. If the attributes which we assign to a hypothetical object or being are self-contradictory, then we can conclude that it cannot exist, and therefore does not exist. I do not need a complete knowledge of the universe to prove that cubic spheres do not exist. Such objects have mutually-exclusive attributes which make their existence impossible. A cube, by definition, has 8 corners, while a sphere has none. These properties are completely incompatible -- they cannot be held simultaneously by the same object.

    I intend to show that the supposed properties of the Christian God Yahweh, like those of a cubic sphere, are incompatible, and by so doing, to demonstrate that Yahweh's existence is an impossibility.
    test
  2. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    What does he mean we cant prove dragons exist. We have fossils. The rest of whatever he was saying wasnt convincing. Just cus a "cube cant be square God can be a man. Thats a bigger feet if u ask me.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    test
  3. snowy

    snowy 39k Rap Song Music Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    4,590
    Wow..

    I mean WOW


    Its not like you come off smart or anything in your usual posts. But come on. Yes we have fossils. And nowhere are there dragons (pterodactyls dont count) or unicorns or angels anywhere in the fossil records.

    Hes saying two things with opposing attributes by definition can not exist. A cube cant be a sphere. No if ands or buts. It just cant.

    You didnt find ANYTHING at all convincing? I mean since you have that direct line to God. Can I hear you're answers to his questions.

    What did God do during that eternity before he created everything?
    If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create?
    Was he bored? Was he lonely?
    How can God be perfect and we humans who are created in his image imperfect?
    If God could make it a rule that only beings with freewill may experience happiness, then he could just as easily have made it a rule that only robots (those without freewill) may experience happiness?
    Why would a perfectly compassionate being create beings which he knows are doomed to suffer?
    Why dole out infinite punishment for finite sins?
    Why sentence those who have never even had the slightest oppurtunity to hear the word of Jesus Christ to hell?
    How could a God who knows the outcome of the Universe in its entirety ever show emotions such as surprise, anger, or sadness?


    The conclusion of the matter

    I have offered arguments for the impossibility, and thus the non- existence, of the Christian God Yahweh. No reasonable and free thinking individual can accept the existence of a being whose nature is as contradictory as that of Yahweh, the "perfect" creator of our imperfect universe. The existence of Yahweh is as impossible as the existence of cubic spheres or invisible pink unicorns.


    While believers may find comfort in being faithful to impossibilities, there is no greater satisfaction than a clear mind. You may choose to serve an impossible God. I will choose reality.
    test
  4. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    I cant reply to all that. But people that havent heard the gosepl dont go to hell. Yes we have dragon fossils theyre called dinosaurs. The bible even talks on dinos.-what was god doing. Laying the foundations and cornerstones. -was hel lonely no he wanted a family. And dont worry they will remind you about that comment you made at the end of your post for eternity.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    test
  5. snowy

    snowy 39k Rap Song Music Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    4,590
    Why exactly cant you reply to all that? How is 11 questions too many for you to handle. Was it the going over 10 part. You are allowed to take off your shoes to count past 10 if you really really need to.

    Or maybe you're just getting a busy signal? God needs to switch carriers or something i guess.


    "Laying the foundations and cornerstones". Could you elaborate? How is that a nod to dinosaurs?

    Was he Lonely? "No he wanted a family". Uh by definition that sounds like he was lonely...
    test
  6. SpillnMoney

    SpillnMoney Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    210
    my phone allows only so many characters. But i did how i could. And a 157 iq aint very unintelligent btw.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    test
  7. SpillnMoney

    SpillnMoney Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    210
    test
  8. Warpaint

    Warpaint What now?

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2001
    Messages:
    4,334
    You should read the Bible. People who never gotten a chance are given a resurrection during the 1000 Year reign of Jesus to either accept or to not accept Jesus as their savior.

    People do have free will but in a limited capacity, just because you have free will does not mean you can go kill someone, well you can, but we have laws, so you might go to jail.

    The Bible is letting you know the consequences of your free will put the wrong way. IT's all there and the choice is yours to believe or not.
    test
  9. SpillnMoney

    SpillnMoney Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2010
    Messages:
    210
    Thats the ones that are born during the 1000 yr reign and a few that survive tribulation.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    test
  10. snowy

    snowy 39k Rap Song Music Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    4,590
    We humans experience anger and frustration when something is wrong which we cannot fix. The perfect, omnipotent God, however, can fix anything. Humans experience longing for things we lack. The perfect God lacks nothing. An omniscient, omnipotent, and perfect God who experiences emotion is impossible.
    You just said there was a brainstorm going on. With himself? No. Father Son Spirit. Sounds like a family to me. And he has angels already. Were they unlovable?


    But, for the sake of argument, let's continue. Let us suppose that this perfect God did create the universe. Humans were the crown of his creation, since they were created in God's image and had the ability to make decisions. However, these humans spoiled the original perfection by choosing to disobey God.

    What!? If something is perfect, nothing imperfect can come from it. Someone once said that bad fruit cannot come from a good tree, yet this "perfect" God created a "perfect" universe which was rendered imperfect by the "perfect" humans.

    The ultimate source of imperfection is God. What is perfect cannot make itself imperfect, so humans must have been created imperfect. What is perfect cannot create anything imperfect, so God must be imperfect to have created these imperfect humans. A perfect God who creates imperfect humans is impossible.


    How does something perfect sin. If its not in the original design. What added it in? He created the world right? He added every influence possible. Being an omniscient god he would know the outcome of interaction between us and everything he laid down.

    So how can you explain our worlds history and still hold onto a Perfect God acting imperfectly.
    test
  11. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    38,468
    The word object denotes visibility. That's a frame, and as such is restrictive. For what reason is this framed with the restriction that says the properties each of a cube and a sphere are completely incompatible when quite clearly if we take away this forced equilibrium - imputing that since cubes and spheres are merely (visible) objects, thus the desired effect of a cubic sphere becomes canceled out by two opposing contradictions - [if we take this away...] then we can all readily accept that cubes, as well as spheres, are more than just objects but they are concepts as well. They are models. Look, for example, at measurements. Here's a fact: Every sphere has a cubic area. How exactly are their properties completely incompatible again? It seems only with the requirement of visibility do they become completely incompatible.

    Is reality also limited to the visible? Then gravity and the atom are just as impossible as the Christian God.

    Well, then you have already failed. I don't need to read any further.
    test
  12. snowy

    snowy 39k Rap Song Music Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    4,590
    You're nitpicking the word "object" and so dismiss his entire thought process.

    There properties are incompatible cause spheres cant have corners. Visible or not. If they do then they're not spheres. Its grade school Simple. At least i thought so. It has nothing to do with whether you can see them or not.
    test
  13. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,437
    it's interesting... because if you look at this idea that physical cubes and spheres exist as mere 'concepts' in the human perception, then this extends not only to all objects but to all concepts, including laws and principles.

    these are all interpretations of reality that hinge on the validity of human perception. it is thus valid to suggest that the idea of gravity could simultaneously be true and false. or that any statement can be the truth and also be a lie. or that god could be benevolent and malevolent simultaneously.

    once you delve into this type of relative thinking, it becomes increasingly difficult to reinforce the christian perception of what god's characteristics are. namely that he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent while also being completely benevolent.

    omnipotence itself is a stunted concept, and is the product of human perception. this concept was based on the assumption of a divine creator, which is why it is limited in its application to reality.

    this argument is anything but new. it goes all the way back to the old proverb: "is god capable of creating a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it?"
    test
  14. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,437
    God is Omnipotent: What does it mean to be all-powerful?
    test
  15. zyclon B gas

    zyclon B gas sososerious

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    16,218
    there, all questions answered very easily in about 2 minutes.

    happy?

    because a cube can't be a sphere, doesn't mean a sphere can't have corners. it just can't have the shape of a cube.

    i couldn't even finish reading that stupid austin cline article because it's based on humans trying to put restrictions and definitions upon a subject which they cannot define.

    try to imagine eternity and you can't, because humans only can think in terms of beginnings and endings. eternity never ends. stop trying to rationalize this because you can't fathom it. nobody can, hence why it's God.

    do you believe in aliens and time travel?
    test
  16. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,437
    which is the point. omnipotence is a concept that was created by humans in an attempt to distinguish the characteristics of God. there is no reason to assume that it is valid.

    this is why omnipotence is not coherent upon further dissection. it doesn't mean that any possible concept of God itself is necessarily incoherent, only that the characteristics given to God in christianity lead to some obvious paradoxes.

    i'm not saying this disproves god. it does however challenge the christian god. anyone who attempts to describe the characteristics of god in their respected religion has just made the initial mistake that you have accused the author of that article of: namely they have tried to use stunted human logic to define the great unknowable.

    i think aliens are a good possibility. time travel, is way above my head, but i do have some doubts about how it could be possible. but i certainly would never advocate an expressed certainty that either of these concepts are real without hard scientific evidence. so in the current context, i don't have faith in either one of those ideas.
    test
  17. zyclon B gas

    zyclon B gas sososerious

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    16,218
    they must be getting their information from the wrong sources, i've never heard those descriptions of god and i grew up in the church.
    test
  18. snowy

    snowy 39k Rap Song Music Folder

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2004
    Messages:
    4,590
    With this thing called science. With this stuff technology we can see outside of our puny chemical/animal eyes spectrum. We KNOW that stars exist all around us. Think about all the billions of possible earth-like worlds on stars that have existed for over 14 billion years. The possibility that on one of these planets a civilization arose and took what they could from their planet and left. Shit billions of years. You don't think Alien life is at least a possibility you're so far gone in denial its sad. In reality its a certainty that out of the 1000s of civilizations that may have existed and amounted to nothing in the long run, there only needs to be 1 that wises up, attains intelligence and wisdom. Makes it their whole species goal to move forward and move beyond their stars. Doesn't fuck shit up. There's no telling what they could accomplish. Think about what we as a species with this stuff can learn en mass if we put away the petty stuff like money, nationality, wars. Maybe if a telepathic species or natural lie detectors species on some planet developed to allow them to cut out all the greedy assholes from their species and did shit right. The possibilities are endless.

    Also I'd have to take back the zombie astronaut part, cause that could actually be plausible. I mean think of a 4000 year old species and implant a guy walking around with anti gravity boots, material transmutation, miraculous healing techniques. Everything he does is beyond reason. Even the ressurection is possible, I mean how would you recognize a certain drug or painkiller in his system if you had copper age technology? And a quick cpr jolt and wow hes alive. Could you explain your speaker on your phone to some, maybe God is just some alien ship captain or some code. Who you talking to. Oh its God.



    Oh and Cubes by definition have 8 corners. No matter how big or small, visible or hidden you make a sphere, it wont have 8. Why? CAUSE IT DOESNT HAVE ANY. Either that or Infinite. It cant be any other that those two options. If 3-D is too much for you. How many corners does a square have? 4. How many does a circle have? 0 or ∞. Can a square be a circle? I keep bringing this up cause this is the type of denial im talking about. This right here is 2+2=5 and it needs to stop.
    test
  19. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    2,437
    you've never heard that god is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent and benevolent?
    test
  20. zyclon B gas

    zyclon B gas sososerious

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    16,218

    i'm not sure if you're being serious, but i laughed throughout this.

    now, would you agree that 8 is a number that is counted on the way up to infinite? the guy specifically said that cubes are cubes because they have 8 corners. a sphere can have infinite corners, 8 is a number counting up to infinite lol.

    (the corners thing is just me messin around)



    and yes i have heard that he's omnipotent, but just because someone thinks that because he may be able to exist but not exist makes it a contradiction does not disprove anything. ever hear the saying "the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist"? that would be saying the devil exists but does not exist - yet it's not a contradiction.
    test
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)