Why is stream-of-consciousness rap hated on by some?

Discussion in 'Hip-Hop Central' started by Konscious, Jul 30, 2008.

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  1. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    I hear a lot of people criticize such cats like Ghostface, Biggie or Lil Wayne by saying they don't rap about anything... or that they're incoherent... or that they'll string together 'meaningless' phrases or what not.

    Don't you know that's by design?

    Stream-of-consciousness poetry or rappin' is supposed to be extemporaneous (big word alert for the idiots... look it up) and is meant to just flow without regard to transitional phrases or proper English grammar (see Smoothe Da Hustler's "Broken Language")... to paint pictures with words by paying attention to minute details (see Nas' whole catalogue) and to juxtapose syntax among different words by focusing on inflection, double entendres or double meanings (see Lil Wayne or Biggie)... all of it's art.

    Das Efx was one of the first, if not the first rappers I heard to really come with that style... hell, or it might've been Kool Keith... either way, when done right and with great delivery, the shit is dope.

    I figured out that that's the only style I can appreciate Lil Wayne on... I prefer him when he raps on those spacey, boomin' beats with no real hook or chorus, because it allows his style to shine the best... unlike when he attempts to create real song structure, then he usually fails to impress.

    Stream-of-consciousness rappin' can also be no different from a jazz or rock instrumentalist soloing to show off his chops (see Ghostface's "Supreme Clientelle")

    I just think a lot of you (Oz, Trey M.) need to quit expecting rap to be one way all the time... fuck your expectations and standards... try meeting the rappers on their terms and then maybe you'll enjoy some shit.


    Your thoughts?
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  2. Trey M

    Trey M \.=.

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    you're a nincompoop(big word alert for the idiots... look it up)
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  3. identity-X

    identity-X No Talent Assclown

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    I agree....



    Aesop Rock -

    Generic's so unappealing and in my humble opinion,
    defeats a rappers civic duty to the culture,
    granted every topic has been covered but cookie cutter,
    delivery of simpleton wit is the real culprit,
    so wether street, club, battle, conscious or other,
    I find that interesting style can often out weigh the subject,
    so when the disc changer goes from guns to space,
    it is not an attempt to fake credibility for the public,
    But fuck it it's ace rock six records of gibberish right?,
    he's trying to hard to be weird and different right? (riiiiight),
    or could it possibly just maybe be, his lessons,
    can't be summed up in a linear set of pop culture references?
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  4. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    Great example... Aesop is another who's ill wit that style... he took a little gettin' used to unlike the others, though... but now I love his music... I was close-minded about rap a long time ago.
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  5. .:Pain:.

    .:Pain:. Futurely J. Keeper

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    I hate Aesop's voice.

    The fact is I prefer coherent, strung-together thoughts with a cohesive theme. I believe writing in that manner is much more difficult, as it is more difficult for me to write in that manner. That's why I, "hate on it," because rappers like Lil Wayne only do that style and never challenge themselves, and when they do, they only show exactly how inept they are at writing. Aesop can write coherently very well, so I don't hate on him...
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  6. MistaChipz

    MistaChipz New Member

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    lol at you putting Konscious' quote about heavy metal in ya sig like , if anything you putting it there is a display of your' ignorance, closed mind, and social conditioning....you are the kind of brother I fucking hate, you fucking conformer....if anything, education didnt open your mind, it sealed it shut...its beyond ignorant, its outright stupid......you're such a dumb ass, a follower, a weak minded pigeon holed mawfucka.....the kind of brother we don't need on this planet....I was fucking with you, just poking at someone I know Im smarter than, but damn, now I feel dumb for ever giving you that attention.....from now on I'll just ignore you.....

    ya moma should of swallowed you chump......
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  7. Trey M

    Trey M \.=.

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    Hey relax..I thought it was funny...did'nt you?
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  8. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    I agree... it is more difficult to write coherently AND be dope/entertaining at the same time... that's the challenge... some rappers do it and come off boring or sounding like they're reading their raps... the best are able to make it sound effortless, like a Jay Z

    It's why I can only take Wayne in small doses... he's incredible wit that style... it's just that when tries to do a traditional song, I don't know... that's just not his bag to me...

    I like Aesop's voice, though... very deep and gritty... his biggest flaw is that he can be too dense lyrically... it's like, 'damn dude you just said a million things in ONE bar!!' Wayne, on the other hand, is very succinct.
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  9. Freebass

    Freebass NAH NUDDAH

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    konscious you are taking ideas and nearly quotes from a thesis i wrote about hip-hop and black music specifically in regards to improvisation...........i lined jazz up with freestyling more, but i agree especially bout wayne............his nonsensical shit is ill when he tries it sounds half as good
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  10. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    You have to consider who Trey M. is, though... his biggest rap heroes are Plies, Buck and Ross.

    He's the only dude I know though that listens to jazz and classical music, but still treats rap like it has no other value than being "munchies for your system." That's the part that's perplexing... most of my fellow jazz heads who love rap are open-minded about it and enjoy the deeper aspects of the genre, as well.

    I think Trey M. is simply a poser... I know plenty of dudes like him.

    I've never had to hide who I am... I'll ride through the hood blastin' Coltrane, Black Sabbath or De La Soul all the same.
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  11. Freebass

    Freebass NAH NUDDAH

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    i am not a fan of people being to wordy and having 4 levels of meaning in every bar..........who was it, oscar wilde who said please forgive me for writing you this long letter i had no time to write a short one.............that sums my view of lyrics up
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  12. Trey M

    Trey M \.=.

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    Everyone knows what I listen to..I been living in a college town for 6 years, and played with the greatest band in the land for 2 of them years...but I'm sorry...my solobarics and ma audio's dont blast coltrane and black sabbath when I come beatin down the block
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  13. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    I try to preach that to the strictly jazz heads on this other site I frequent and they don't get it... or they refuse to... they hate rap just as much as some here might hate jazz... they focus too much on the "harsh language" and sampling... when I've heard plenty of harsh saxophone solos and phrase quoting of other tunes... smh... you should read some of the stuff.
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  14. Freebass

    Freebass NAH NUDDAH

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    you never heard my coltrane billie holliday ozzie pantera devo swv beat............that shit makes you loose sight of time taste and smell cause you will shit yourself
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  15. Freebass

    Freebass NAH NUDDAH

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    lol jazz is basically the ultimate genre of sampling, there are like 20 standards and everyone has like 40 versions of their own..........plus miles davis was the most foul mouthed ass hole from the mouths of those who have met him, at least thats what they told me..........all the dudes were potty mouthed..........
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  16. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    Not every bar... but I have to be in a certain mood to listen to Aesop... he's still a lot to digest... shit, I still haven't figured out everything he said on "Float."

    But you don't like "free jazz," either... I forgot... Aesop is like free jazz.
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  17. NinjaMic

    NinjaMic Brian Disease

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    Good on you... Canibus atcha. That's all I can do... spit til you can't. Rhyme til it won't. Muse til it doesn't. I couldn't do a hook or theme if my life depended on it... 1 verse will say it all and end when it does. If I write a 2nd and 3rd verse, what am I going to say that relates? I feel like the verse itself is the canvas and stand alone piece.
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  18. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    I know... and they were violent, too... Mingus was particularly scrappy... I think Dizzy stabbed a dude one time... Lee Morgan was shot dead by his wife in a club

    And let's not talk about drugs... for some bands in the '40s and '50s, using heroin was a REQUIREMENT in order to join.

    But today's jazzers don't like to talk about those things.
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  19. NinjaMic

    NinjaMic Brian Disease

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    Please listen to Cancer, or Life's a Riddle, or Hungry...
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  20. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    You being funny? Are those real groups?


    What are their styles like?
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