Why did they make the 90s camaros and trans am firebirds so UGLY?

Discussion in 'Car & Audio' started by VishTaphney, Feb 2, 2007.

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  1. Tigre

    Tigre Ax Me About Ebonics

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    That is not the point, yet again. The point was to say why are euro's better than american cars on a performance stat. I did I named about 20 cars that are capable of doing performance. You only name the Z06.. at least say the GT40 as well. Yeah of course it is pointless cause american cars are not up for the challenge. Great way to prove your point.


    C6-R.. and you say i am not compaing apples to apples.. Great to know, I guess I should bring up CLK GTR's and RUF Porsche's as well... come on.
    When did i say an overpriced car is better? Where the fuck did you get that from. I just said Euro's are better cars. Be it more expensive or not.



    Yeah STi, EVO, S2k.. Jesus, if you stop comparing performance racing to a damn drag strip maybe you can appreciate a car. I can appreciate what an LS1 can do. I know how much of a beast they are on a drag strip. But you said PERFORMANCE and I have named them in the same price range and can beat an LS1 in a all out test.

    Stop the bullshit. You have knocked plenty of euro's and imports. Especially since you want to only compare them to who can win down the 1320. So don't act like you respect all performance cars. As you try to prove why euro's are better..sooooo....



    LOL.. just cause i appreciate better engineering, and not that of a american v8 I am questioned upon my decision...lol... I could care less.


    Supra's have been big before F&F. Just americans start seeing it after the movie. I knew about this car for the longest time. I visit Japan frequently so I knew how nasty the car was and it was an instant high HP beast in Japan after it's arrival. Sooo yeah in the US it was a Supra craze, but I am not them, so I don't care.

    Give me a break man.. EVOs and STi's have a huge legacy. IT all falls into WRC where probably the greatest racers reside. Of course they don't go as far back as muscle cars.. because..lets see....ummm....they weren't even produced then.. oh yeah thats right. And stop with the firebirds and camaro. The fucking Mustang phased your car out. What a great car that had to stop production. I hope they put that in the legacy. The mustang outsold both the Camaro/Firebird 2 to 1.



    LOL.. this is the thing.. you love your v8 no matter what.. you are biased, as I am biased with euro cars. I can't sway you EVER, as you can't sway me. Do I respect american cars... yeah.. classics. I love to have a 67 camaro. Actually owned a 68 Mustang 4 years ago. Even helped restore a 71 T/A. I don't hate american cars, I jsut dont like the present batch, excluding the Z06, and GT40.
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  2. Tigre

    Tigre Ax Me About Ebonics

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    The fuck out of here for that. Yeah how many fucking ppl have you heard of with their roof flying off. The fucking car is not a TT top sooo .... yeah, I will wait on that one.

    Freak accidents.. sure in a 28k dollar car.. freak accident like shift nob, or some shit.. but a fucking roof. Yeah i would like to hear a owner of a 70k car say yeah its ok.. i know freak accidents happen where my roof flies teh fuck off the car..lol



    450 from a 2.0lt 4 banger??? the fuck on a stock block sure. Fucking they have evo's with 900awhp... so do some fucking homework before spouting off at the mouth. That was done with a built motor and to ALL 4 WHEELS.
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  3. Tigre

    Tigre Ax Me About Ebonics

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    Ummm...
    M3 5.0lt v8.. 420hp
    M5 = 500 N/A
    RS4 = 420 N/A
    S4 = 300 N/A
    SLk55.. etc

    Why do they utilize F/I.. better gas mileage. Also in Japan insurance rates are higher depending on the size of the engine.. There is a reason for everything. Just cause it is one way in our country doesn't make it right everywhere else. And since when did I say displacement wasn't a good thing, or a smart thing.. or negative about v8's. Fuck I have owned v8's and by the end of teh summer I will have another v8 in my possession.. yeah i know its not an american v8. I am an Nazi.. what can I say.

    This shit is getting anywhere.. cause we are NEVER going to agree.


    Soo here.. AMericans make GREAT straight line cars.
    America has built the best Performance car for the buck

    Euro knows how to compliment both speed and luxury.
    Euro's have more in terms of #'s performance cars.

    Each country is great in making the car they know how to build.
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  4. Snikka

    Snikka Vision Action Execution

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    I'm not breaking down your posts cause I just dont want to. Euro just has more companies specializing in performance auto. thats the bottom line here. How does that make European better? Everthing from styling, interiors, engines, its mostly subjective unless you go into specific details. I can find lots of guys running relatively low psi's getting 25-30mpg and making absurd power. Just cause it isn't produced from the factory that way doesn't mean it cant do it. And I highly doubt that running high psi is safer than running a low pressure NATURALLY ASPIRATED engine. That's rediculous.

    I can prove the z06 engine and car components are all top of the line. And I'm mostly defending the z06 because the corvette engine is where the firebird/camaro ls1/ls2/ls6/ls7 is derived from and shows a HISTORY of quality in performance and has an established track record with the corvette on tracks for almost half a century and been a world competitor for its entire life, that doesn't prove American CAN in fact compete??. so.............

    The firebird/camaro is a sports car / pony car by definition mostly following historic definitions. and is a PERFORMANCE car. just cause it doesn't handle a circle track as well as euro's that cost thousands more, doesn't make a euro better. it makes the euro better in that category. again subjectivity son.

    We could compare other domestics against Euro's in those price categories and find luxury/performance that is comparable in those price ranges.

    and I was fucking with you listing JUSt the z06. You cant deny the American powerhouses in Ford/Dodge/Chevrolet in Cobras/Vipers/Vettes. There's no euro car that compares in the same way to those cars. They are their own class of muscle car/sports car performance.

    You heard of Evolution performance (NOT EVO)?? they taking GT-500 with pulley's, Kenne Belle and b0lt-on's and doing 9's.. so........ probably NO Euro or mitsubishi is doing that right now. you're bound to break SOMTHING by the time you hit 9's.

    The mustang didn't phase shit out, in fact, if you look at actual stats. the ls1's still FASTER than the new GT's. so........... I bet they probably handle as well to.. so........... just cause people didn't buy the fucking car doesn't dictate a market population. Mustangs finally are making the power of an ls1. So other than the 03/04 being a dominant force, the lsx is not to be doubted in the Domestic market. and you proved the corvette/camaro/firebird has a longer legacy than the STI/EVO and American performance has always answered to Euro's. EVo's and Supra's get my respect. we know what those cars can do. But my point is that the new z06 PROVES americans can in fact compete.

    and they are releasing the 09' Camaro. so............ it's back.. people love the beast.

    compare the prices to all those cars your listed to the Z06 and clearly the z06 offers the best performance per dollar. everyone who tries to link domestic performance to lack of reliability and mechanical problems is a RICER. I dont even want to further discuss that. some jerks roof doesn't mean every american car in production. and doesn't signify a large enough sample to say anything. so yeah fuck outa here with that. I'm sure I can go dig up some bullshit problems in Euro cars.

    But I agree. We will never agree.. both have their strong points. neither is BETTER in my opinion. and you certainly cant prove it.

    American performance cars perform. we agree. but yeah I have down talked euros, but you all down talk american.. so it's all fair.
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  5. Tigre

    Tigre Ax Me About Ebonics

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    lol.. i am must be getting old cause I want to respond but I really don't care. But yeah this thread is done. We can agree that we disagree. We both have facts and we will leave it at that.
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  6. Snikka

    Snikka Vision Action Execution

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    Surely you care or else you wouldn't have come to rescue in a thread about "lowly" camaro/firebirds.

    Gotta admit these arguments keep the forum interesting.

    Good day.
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  7. Sprinta_01

    Sprinta_01 can't deny the skillz....

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  8. Ethan Albright

    Ethan Albright New Member

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    has your dash-board cracked open yet snikka? Leather seats tearing?


    my mother-in-law's 99 TA is garage kept and is doing both.


    They're shit. Everyone knows but those that drive them, because they're too bias to give a true analysis.
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  9. Snikka

    Snikka Vision Action Execution

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    ^^^ ummmm.. no.

    And tell that stupid bitch to sell the car, cause I assume she must complain as much as you or else you wouldn't be crying about it all the time same stupid bullshit.. wah wahhh.. hows your eclipse btw? we should do a quick 0-160 run.. can your car handle 130+?

    [​IMG]

    ^^ my interior.
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  10. Snikka

    Snikka Vision Action Execution

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    and that an old pic. I JUST cleaned/conditioned/moisturized all the leather since that pic. so it's actually much softer and cleaner than you think.
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  11. Ben Official

    Ben Official Active Member

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    your cars an automatic?! wtf

    what year?
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  12. Snikka

    Snikka Vision Action Execution

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    Auto is clearly the best choice for a "race car" in most scenarios. 3 speed automatics are common in drag cars: TH350, TH400, etc. etc.

    Yeah I run an A4, that unfortunately came stock with 2.73 gears. It's a 2001 ls1, so it's got the upgraded 42lb injectors and ls6 intake manifold stock.

    I've since upgraded to 3.73s in the rear and I have a shift kit also.

    Auto pros = easy to do high rpm launches, somewhat better fuel economy, less chance of breaking my rear.

    When I raced a b0lt-on 96' m6 lt1 camaro ss, it wasn't even a race from a dig.
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  13. Ben Official

    Ben Official Active Member

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    I couldn't live with a fast car being an automatic but thats just me.

    Better fuel economy? nah manual has the potential for better fuel economy.

    I think manual is better for drag strip because it has the potential to be faster with a good driver. Its just all in all way more fun to drive stick. and on the track a manual is better without a doubt. i dont give a fuck about drag races personally.

    I couldn't live with myself if my car was automatic.

    and im not a fan of that interior either but i have a totally different taste in cars so i wont even begin to argue there.
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  14. Snikka

    Snikka Vision Action Execution

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    Go launch your car from like 3500 rpm's and tell me how it goes.

    Power everything, steering controls, power antenna, 500watt monsoon stock, 8 speakers + tweets, leather... FINE with me.

    the car wan't meant to be luxury.. it's a performance car and it's a f-body..
    you cant even compare my 2001 interior to the interior of a 2007 GTO.. the gto stuff is better. so.......... how does the 07' m3 compare to your 99'?

    and ask anyone who knows shit about racing and try to tell me auto isn't the better choice if you want to be fast in drag racing. it's not even a debate really. It's more personal preference if anything when it comes down to it. both have their pros/cons. I went auto.

    automatic + converter > manual.

    and manual has the chance of better fuel economy because of the higher gears. BUT you'd have to shift at real low rpms and do it very consistently to match me just keeping my auto in 4.. at least with the 2.73's, I could cruise well under 2k rpms when doing 70+ in 4. 20+mpg for me most of the time which isn't bad for a 5.7 v8

    :)
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  15. Ben Official

    Ben Official Active Member

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    the 99 is really nice interior actually.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    there isnt a huge difference in the 07 except a bunch of new gadgets. i love my interior.

    your car wasnt designed to be a luxury car, and you werent going for luxury, so theres really nothing to argue we just have different tastes.

    i dont know a lot about manual compared to auto but how come 0-60 times are always rated faster for manual transmission cars?

    and i get 22-23 mpg in the city, and not trying to conserve gas in my bimmer compared to 19 in the gallant (automatic) of the same year.

    i dont know that much about drag racing but im curious why a lot of places rate manual versions of the same car faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile.

    besides, stick is just way more fun to drive. i'd never own a fast car without stick but thats just me.
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  16. Snikka

    Snikka Vision Action Execution

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    Right on. Yeah your interior looks good. no doubt. But I knew that and accept it because BMW > MOST in STOCK classes.

    My point is the LSx powerplant is not to be doubted and once modifying comes into play you gotta throw most that out the door.

    A 2.73 a4 feels a bit sluggish compared to a 3.23 stock manual actually. But honestly, nobody can really prove a manual is rated faster on most cars. It seems on a case to case basis. I personall would have to say it's purely based on 1. driver and 2. setup. Because most all out drag cars, and I'm talking top fuel and pro stock, they generally use 3 speed auto's. (Small room for driver error/consistency)

    My argument is that not everyone can launch a manual. It's pretty skilled. So you are probably right that "most" manuals are rated faster, with their given drivers on a road course. But no manual can launch usually nearly as well as most auto's.. thats just my experience and what I've read/seen. Manual is more fun, my old sport truck was stick and I loved it. Manual is great for road courses/handling, I like the control of shifting my auto especially in the mountains. But it doesn't matter. you'd be amazed how many heads have autos. Pros/cons.

    I think nowadays quick ends sub 10s.
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  17. Ethan Albright

    Ethan Albright New Member

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    Yeah. We should definitely do that!

    Then...after that, we can go watch Fast and Furious together! Yeah! And maybe go to the skating rink! Dude, this will be sweet!


    .....or we could act like we're not 16 years old and that "speed" is the reason for owning a vehicle.
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  18. Ethan Albright

    Ethan Albright New Member

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    oh, and she doesn't complain. I just noticed the cracks.

    It's a piece of shit. It's cheap speed. That's ALL that car is. It's the only reason people own it. Quality is shit. Appearance is shit. Everything is shit other than what's under the hood........so...... take it for what it's worth.
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  19. BoardWalk

    BoardWalk it's a monopoly.

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    Dude look at your own fucking car before you talking some stupid shit trying to downtalk cars that are superior to what you own yourself. Please son... just shut the fuck up for once.

    The ls1 shits on you. Let your own car do the talking.

    I'm willing to race you simply to prove your an idiot because you carelessly think f-body's are just pieces of shit in general. You wouldn't say anything to me in my face regarding how shitty my car is. My car isn't tastelessly modified or ricey in appearance on some fast and furious bullshit... unlike you in the eclipse. It's got balls and lots of people other than the 5 or 6 on here with even slower cars would agree with me you dont need a high dollar car to perform in comparison. (Note: modded C5 / C6)

    So take it for what it's worth.
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  20. BoardWalk

    BoardWalk it's a monopoly.

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    When you modify a car, everything gets thrown out the window.

    And again. Try to compare the Z06 to exotics and here's my reply:

    What league isn't it in? Pricing? Interior? Overall Quality?

    The engine is hand built, the car itself is highly engineered and tested, gm initial quality is behind only toyota right now. So for a consumer car it's the best bargain performance car OVERALL. It's proving itself with world class vehicles on road courses (higher than vipers and the Ford GT even) and still maintaining its reputation on drag courses. It's history and legacy is still there.

    The 06' z06 is the only car thats actually groundbreaking, if you will for American perofmrnace. If they had been doing this for the last THIRTY years instead of the last 2, then this argument wouldn't really happen.
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