Who still thinks Silva would beat Bones?

Discussion in 'MMA, Boxing & Other Combat Sports' started by FarooqHakim, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. Acoustic101

    Acoustic101 New Member

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    Not to bump an old thread, but I need the posts ha.

    Silva probably wins the standup but he can't let jones get ahold of him in the clinch. Greco roman throws all day.
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  2. J Keeper

    J Keeper Super Jesus

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    I agree with everything except that.

    He got flying heel hooked by Ryo Chonan for fuck's sake.
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  3. Webbie

    Webbie New Member

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    Anderson Silva is a beast and is my probably my favorite fighter to watch currently, but he would lose to Bones. It's a horrible match-up for Anderson. Bones has everything he needs to beat Anderson; the wrestling, the top game, and the submission defense, which is the only thing that prevented Chael Sonnen from beating him in their first fight.

    I do believe this fight will happen eventually, and when it does, I think we'll see Jones take a unanimous decision.
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  4. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    Anderson entered that fight with a broken ankle. He had very little mobility, couldn't put weight on his leg...and was still competitive. That's ridiculous. And we all know what would happen to Ryo Chonan in a rematch.

    Anderson without a doubt is my favorite fighter in MMA, but Jones is a close second. I do believe that he is part of the now and future wave of MMA athletes that will finally put MMA over the top. But I see Anderson winning this fight.

    Greco Roman wrestling from John isn't a problem for Jones for two major reasons. One? He already fought a host of guys with better MMA Greco than Jones, inclusive of a less damaged, fresh from his thrilling victory over a just-passed-hisprime PRIDE Wanderlei. Everyone wanted to see the Greco vs MT plumm clinch war, and I did too. I didn't know who would win...until I took a seminar with Diogenes Assahida [ the man who taught Anderson his hybrid MT clinch ] a few ays beore Anderson vs Hendo took place. Within just the warmup exercises, I saw immediately that Anderson had an unanswerable advantage over Hendo, and he has a similar advantage over Jones.

    Even worse for Jones, Anderson has been logging regular mat time with Satoshi Ishii who is the 2008 HW Olympic Japanese Judo champ. Ishii is the same guy who busted Anderson's ribs with a throw before his first fight with Chael. Jones WILL NOT be throwing Anderson and Jones WILL NOT be foot sweeping Anderson [ who, let us not forget, is also a black belt in judo. Judo is one of the arts that I have my black belt in...and as a MT wrestling and boxing coach, a multiple 5th dan in kenpo, taekwondo, tang soo do, hapkido, a 3rd dan in shaolin kempo, and holding rank in other arts? Lemme tell you, that Judo balance, timing, gripping and throwing pays HUGE dividends ].

    Muay Thai clinch+Olympic Judo vs Greco-Roman clinch? Advantage, Anderson.

    That leaves striking.

    Remember how Jones was having problems with Machida striking, and problems with Vitor landing strikes in a few moments in the first and second rounds? Anderson still smokes Jones striking and can shut Jones' lights off with either hand, knee, elbow or foot. Anderson has the better bjj, too.

    Jones' major advantages lie in his murderous gnp more than anything else. Jones is a whirling dervish of a beast with his gnp. Elbows like scimitars swung down at you from a truly pissed off giant. This is the area that he can stop Anderson, and anyone else.

    But.

    Anderson has MARVELOUS defense, even from off his back. Furthermore, his bjj is better, and he makes dazzling adjust in the ring. Jones has never had to make such adjustments because he was always the front runner vs shorter, weaker opposition [ excepting Rampage and Rashad, he equaled or surpassed Jones' strength at the time of their matches ]. That is NOT a slam on Jones. He fought true champions, DECIMATED THEM, and made them look talentless. His advantages are God given and make him that much more of a marvel. That much more of a man God made for MMA. That much more proof that he is the now and future champion...even against Daniel Cormier.

    Jones is a prodigy. A terrific champion who will blossom into further greatness as his career expands.

    But Anderson is...deservedly...the GOAT. A title once held...deservedly...by the prime Fedor, and challenged only by the prime Wanderlei. And that's where the music stops.

    Anderson by unanimous decision or late stoppage.
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  5. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    I've loved MVP since he was in the point fighting circuit wrecking people...but both Jones and Silva would obliterate MVP inside of one round. It would be "easy work", as Floyd Mayweather Jr. says.


    Your perspective is a common one, but it is flawed.

    Anderson spars regularly with Junior Dos Santos. Clinch work, and all. Do you actually think that Jones is stronger than JDS? Hope not, because JDS is clearly the stronger of the two...and JDS is quick as hell, too. There goes the strength advantage. JDS also hits harder. A lot harder. No question.

    Anderson also works Judo with 2008 Olympic HW Judo Champion Satoshi Ishii. Jones is NOT throwing Anderson.

    Remember how everyone ballyhoo'd Hendo's clinch game...a close to his prime Hendo, mind you...when he first fought Anderson? It was Hendo's Olympic silver medal Greco vs Anderson's MT clinch. Remember what happened? And now, Anderson is even better than he was when he first demolished Hendo. He will of course respect Jones' clinch, but such a position as Jones' clinch endangers both Silva and Jones. Moreso Jones, imo, than Anderson due to Anderson's skill and experience. Like Canelo in boxing, Jones is still growing in every way and will be more magnificent in the future. But right now? Like Mayweather will show when he fights Canelo...the current king IS STILL the King.

    While we're on the subject? Anderson wrecks Weidman, but I agree with and really like your assertion that then new generation of fighters are the "athletic equivalent of bunch of nerdy straight A students".
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  6. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    I absolutely agree that weight cutting wrecks the spirit of the sport which allows people of equal weight the right to compete against each other. As much as I like Smooth Henderson? I absolutely positively believe that he has NO BUSINESS fighting as a LW. He should be competing at WW. I despise weight cutting as a practice. Compete at your own weight. I barely accept the idea that a weight cut of 10 pounds is acceptable, because in boxing 10 pounds can be 2 divisions and in MMA 10 pounds is one division or thereabouts.

    Plus prolonged weight cutting is bad for your liver and whatnot. Just a stupid practice which should be avoided, and which both increases the dangers and risks that a fighter exposes while simultaneously reducing the longevity of their career.
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  7. J Keeper

    J Keeper Super Jesus

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    1) A flying heel hook is one of the easiest things to defend against. Especially for someone you say has elite BJJ.
    2) He injured his ankle two months previous, to Murray I believe it was. I had the broke my ankle and was playing midfield in Lacrosse a month later. Now, of course, different levels of competition, just saying he certainly wasn't that far behind because of it.
    3) Where do you get that he has such great BJJ? His two real losses are both by submission. He was getting DOMINATED on the ground by Chael round after round. No escapes, no transitions, barely any sub attempts and when he did attempt they were half-assed and landed a hail mary of a sub against a super winded and over confident Chael.
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  8. zyclon B gas

    zyclon B gas sososerious

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    addressing that last point, did you see how much anderson was respecting chael's ground game? he wasn't. he wasn't in any trouble of being submitted, he openly let chael punch him as much as he wanted because he hits like a bitch. anderson's face was clean. he was clear-headed and caught the submission when he wanted to. he had clear shots at it numerous times but didn't take them because he wanted chael to think he was winning.

    jones should have lost to vitor, but vitor is like GSP in that he lacks the strength to go that extra inch and fuckin break people's body parts a la frank mir. if vitor had extended a little more, he breaks jones' arm and wins. GSP does the same shit. he'll put you in the sub but if you don't give up, he'll let it go. that's why nobody taps when he gets them in a sub anymore.

    silva, on the other hand, will break that shit off. jones is still raw and he leaves those long arms dangling for what equates to hours in MMA. he'll go for the takedown on silva, he'll probably get it, silva will clinch, jones will go for GNP and leave his left arm hanging there. his first punch silva will lock in the triangle and that's it.

    chael did the same. watch that first fight. chael's arm is on silva's chest for the entire duration of the fight and silva knows it. he chose not to go for the sub. he knows what he's doing. silva and jones are very similar in that everyone plans on fighting them on their terms, but once they're in the ring, they end up fighting on jones/silva's terms. jones will go in wanting to out-strike silva, then he'll realize that silva is better than him. he'll then go for the takedown and wonder why his arm is broken 2 minutes later.
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  9. J Keeper

    J Keeper Super Jesus

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    I'm sorry but this is borderline delusional.
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  10. zyclon B gas

    zyclon B gas sososerious

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    watch the fight. aside from 1 punch that made anderson trip, he dropped his hands multiple times and let chael punch him. he never respected any of his punches. ever.

    and he had his arm, he went for subs but hardly tried. you don't think he knew what he was doing? he was frustrated because chael was pulling a GSP. sitting on top without doing anything worthwhile (though GSP actually damages people's faces and chael wasn't hurting silva whatsoever)
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  11. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    No intelligent grown man ever, EVER lets another man hit them hundreds of times. I wouldn't even let a child hit me a hundred times. Getting hit that many times would hurt and would be exhausting. Let's seriously not ignore that basic facts of human vulnerability apply to legendary individuals as well. No one would take that many shot unless they HAD TO. No one would want to be mounted by a 200+ pound man. Was Silva calm? Yes. Did he take control of the situation when the time was right? Yes. Was he comfortable? Hell no. Calm and having a good ol time aren't the same thing. Silva was getting worked on in those fights, but Silva like BJ and Hendo is a durable guy. But people don't just stumble and get full swung on for funsies. If you look at his rematches with Okami or Sonnen in the second round specifically, you see a since of urgency in Silva's demeanor that he never had in his early fights. Silva has more respect for his competition than he used to because he's smart, not because he so analytical as his closest fans think that he wants his opponents to think that have gotten to him and he's on the verge of an emotional breakdown.

    I still think Anderson in terms of career greatness is the best. But he overcame challenges. To act like he never had a challenge is dumb. To act like he would want to get hit by a grown man if he was fully capable of winning without being hit is also dumb.
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  12. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    Also, somewhat related, I think Jon Jones will probably one day wind up fighting and beating Cain Velesquez and maybe JDS. If he fought either of those two right now, he would lose. He'd need a tune up in the Heavyweight division, because that weight class has a much wider range of body types and sizes. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I think Jon jones in due time will have the head movement and evasiveness to deal with guys with much closer reaches and much taller. Picture Stephan Struve vs Jon Jones. I think Jones could beat him, but it would different than anything jones has faced, he would have to train differently.
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  13. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    You make a lot of good points here, but I would like to add a few more:

    1. At many times during the fight, Anderson did indeed allow Chael to hit him...and a major part of the reasoning behind that was because Anderson's rib injuries were preventing his usual mobility, allowing the Chaelroid [ do NOT forget that Chael was on roids in that fight, people, and that THE VERY BEST CHAEL LOST to THE VERY WORST ANDERSON already ] to dominate position and pressure him even more than the already very good Chael has done to other opponents.

    2. The second part of the above reasoning is exactly as zyclon b has said, which is: Chael can't hit and Anderson realized that speedily. Anderson smothered, rolled, and/or deflected most of those blows. The shots that came in clean from Chael were numerous but lacked any real power. They were no threat to Anderson. And Anderson knew it. Remember, Anderson trains pretty regularly with Junior Dos Santos, as they are all part of Black House. Getting tagged by JDS in practice is a good way to not worry about the power of somebody else, because you're already used to way more than they can throw at you...especially the baby punches Chael was throwing.

    3. Don't forget that in Anderson's documentary BEFORE the Chael fight...LIKE WATER...he specifically said that he was going to tap Chael for disrespecting the Nog Brothers' bjj. That's exactly what happened. Remember, Anderson entered the ring with a BJJ gi on. When has he ever done that before? Never in the UFC. If ever at all.

    4. Anderson...the uninjured Anderson...did to Chael exactly what he always does to "elite" wrestlers and bjj guys. He has zero fear of their skill sets, he stands with them and makes them take him down [ if they can ]. Then he works his solid guard game. All this time he's gathering data on them in that battle supercomputer of a brain of his. He then completely crushes them immediately thereafter. Travis Lutter, Hendo, Marquardt, Franklin, Okami, Sonnen 2. They got decimated the same way. Remember the Thales Leites fight? Too many people forget that Leites is MUNDIALS CHAMP. Yep. Bjj world champ. Anderson went to the mat with him and did just fine, thanks. In fact? Anderson gained top control and began raining down his fearsome gnp before the round ended. And Thales had the added advantage of being a friend of Anderson's before they fought...and that's why Anderson didn't finish him. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mma-c...dn-t-finish-thales-leites-140210592--mma.html

    Anderson's trained with literally some of the best ever to grapple on the mats. Olympic HW Judo Champ Satoshi Ishii. The Nogs. The Black House bjj coaches. Ronaldo Jacare. Etc etc. He did fine with them, and he is equally unperturbed with anyone else.
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  14. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    New question: how many people who posted in this thread will just pretend like this conversation never happened?

    Wait, let me guess... Silva just wanted Weidman to think he was knocked out and the unknowing referee got in the way of his ultimate strategy just like when Silva pretended to be dropped by Sonnen :funny:
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  15. DemiGod

    DemiGod Peef Rimgar

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    I still hate you.....but clearly Bones >>>>>>>>>> anyone really.
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  16. DemiGod

    DemiGod Peef Rimgar

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    I hate Bones too.
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  17. FarooqHakim

    FarooqHakim Dot Dorbal

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    You hate me? :(
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  18. DemiGod

    DemiGod Peef Rimgar

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    Yeah....I don't like douche bags <3
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  19. zyclon B gas

    zyclon B gas sososerious

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    silva showboated and got caught for it. i was saying it the whole fight. he can't play like weidman is sonnen. he was arrogant and he paid for it. plain and simple. obviously his gameplan was to get into his head because he was stuffing takedowns. he didn't respect weidman's power, and he got caught flush.

    still the greatest p4p. and he wouldn't showboat against jones, and if he were to rematch weidman i guarantee he'd win.
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  20. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    he was always a nice seeming dude, but i thought his cockyness would catch up to him as it usually seems to do to people who are cocky... and then last night happened...so yeah. He could be greater if he wasnt so cocky lol
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