Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by TheBigPayback, Apr 18, 2012.
Read Matthew 4:1-11
Imagine fasting 40 days and nights...your physical body is being starved, but when killing the flesh the Spirit is strong cos you are relying on the Word of Elohim and not the flesh...that's why fasting rids of unclean Spirits, they dwell and fed on your fleshy desires. Starve them out. (i can back this with scriptures)
So Yahshuah was led up by the Spirit of YAH into the wilderness to be tempted...(yes even the MessiYAH had great temptations and over came. DEEP)
v3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of Elohim, command that these stones be made bread.
An average man would be like "OH I'm going to show to him and prove I am the Son of Elohim!!!" But Yahshuah did not give into that deceptive spirit coming at him. He came back and said:
v4. It is written, man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of Elohim
v5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteh him on a pinnacle of the temple
Now, this time Satan is going to come at the MessiYAH with scriptures (note he twists them a little too)
v6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of Elohim, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone
Satan was quoting scriptures from Psalms 9:11. Even the enemy know scriptues...it's important that you do to, friend exodus.
Still Yahshuah, still hungry came at him cool, calm and collective in the spirit of YAH, saying
v7 It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt YAHUWAH they Elohim
The devil then took him up to a high mountain (v8-v9) in a blink of an eye showed Yahshua all the earthly Kingdoms that he ruled... all the wordily glory in them and offered it to him, only if Yahsuah would fall down and worship Satan. (Satan is the ruler of this world, spiritual wickedness in HIGH PLACES, we battle not the flesh but this type of darkness)
Not think about this. Yahshua was tempted. But he knew that in time he would be given the earth to establish his own Kingdom...He knew that Satan's time would come to an end and that the world would be all Yahshuahs when the Kingdom comes down from heaven to be established for ever...so he resisted with knowledge and understanding and came back a Satan and said:
v10 Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship YAHUWAH thy Elohim and him only shalt thou serve
v11 Then the devil leavethhim, and behold, angels came and ministered unto him
That's deep. After Yahshuah resisted the enemy angels came and comforted him, strengthening him.
We see the same thing the night Yahshuah gave himself up to the chief religious rulers...he was tempted to buy swords and fight back, but he prayed and said "It is enough" and did what was and had to happen. Die. But a amazing thing happened, while praying angels came down and strengthing him.
Prayer is powerful. Pray to be strong against temptations. Pray in all things. While fasting your spiritual state is stronger too.
Gotcha. I was in the car when I typed that. Here you go. Mostly the first portion of the chapter.
I think we both can agree that this passage is talking about the Messiah. From the portions I put in bold it seems like Yahshuah was in existence in the beginning with Yah. What I mean is it seems like there is a strong possibility that Yahshuah like Yah has no official beginning and wasn't created. I could be reading too much into the text but he seems self existent. How do you see it? I'm not saying they are the same being but it seems possible that they both have been in existence together since (for a lack of a better word) the Beginning.
I did want to say I really liked this.
That's a hint to the way I view the Messiah's role in Yah's Eternal plan. I'm kind of weird though. Hahaha!
DUDE!! I was about to pull my hair out trying to explain this to some folks a few weeks ago! They just couldn't believe that the Messiah had a chance to fall into temptation. I was like come on how can it be a temptation if it's not something you can fall for? I'm a heterosexual male so a man flirting with me is no temptation. But a beautiful sister on the other hand is a serious temptation.
exactly! people think that when they read how Yahshuah was tempted that it was so easy for him to resist...like it was nothing. NO. Temptation is in your heart and you are tempted it's when you want to do it, its a battle in the heart and mind!. It's fleshy, it's carnal and it can be overcome! Yahshuah was tempted just like how we are tempted. It was real and it was a hard walk. Not hard as diffucult!
Yahshuah came as a man! And like all of us, he experience it all just like we! He came to do the will of the Father and he did just that! People don't know that, and think he was 'gawd" and it was just so easy for him.
Then, how would he be an example for us to walk. We are not gods, so that would not be a righteous example to follow, nor could we do it. But Yahshuah came in the fleah...ie a man.
He over came brothers and sistas....He sinned not (sin=transgression of YAH's law/Word). We can too.
Churches teach opposite of this...and it is all anti-MessiYAH.
Don't get me wrong, there is not a man who sins not!
Yes!!! How can I follow His example if He didn't have the ability to mess up like I do? How much greater is He to have the ability to fail but succeed over EVERY circumstance?
Actually most churches that open their bibles do teach this but they over complicate it with stuff like Hypostatic Union. But there are SOME that REALLY just don't get it and those are the ones that make me want to pull my hair out sometimes.
First, Yahshuah is the SON of ELOHIM. Really think about that. He can do things like the Father, just like your children can do the things you can. But, they are not you, you are not them. Yahshuah came in the flesh, he was a man on this earth...he became humble. He is at the right hand of the Father now...He was a "black" man on this earth from the Tribe of Yah-who-Da (juda). That's all we can know...
Baised off scriptures the word was and still is the law...Yahshuah came to do the Word, to perform it and fulfill what was written and to do the Will of the Father. By the Word the pillars of the world were established, even on these foundations. Yahshuah was there in the beginning. Since he had not decended as a man to earth yet, I don't know his form...I don't think anyone can...though scholars can make doctrine up about it, but scholars are just men, like you and me.
The wide spread misunderstanding of this verse among Christians is the source of much of the confusion that exists regarding who the One Most High Elohim of the Bible is. It is a serious mistake for Christians to read John 1:1 as if it says:
“In eternity past was the Son, and the Son was with Elohim, and the Son was Elohim,” thus making Yahshuah the eternal Elohim. Note: John uses the word “beginning” 23 times in his writings and not once does he mean “eternity past.”
It is always some certain beginning.
Note: The word “word” in John chapter one is not capitalized in the original Greek, and in many older translations.
Here are the precept texts:
By the word of YAHUWAH were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth....for he spoke and it was done” (Ps. 33:6, 9).
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of Elohim (Heb. 11:3).
By the word of Elohim the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water (II Peter 3:5).
These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of Elohim (Yahshuah speaking) (Rev. 3:14). Trust Yahshuah!
Look at John 1:3.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Is the word “him” in this verse translated properly? First of all it does not harmonize with a true understanding of the two prior verses. (The “word” - logos - “something said” is not a “him”).
Second, it is important to note that of eight prominent English translations that preceded the King James Version of 1611, not one used the word “him.” Seven of the eight rendered John 1:3, “By it all things were made. Without it nothing was made” (Tyndale Bible, 1526; Matthew, 1535; Tavener, 1539; The Great (Cranmer’s) Bible, 1539; Whittingham, 1557; Geneva, 1560; Bishop’s Bible, 1595). One, the famous Coverdale Bible of 1550 says “the same” rather than “it.” None of these eight say “him.” Why did the King James translators render “it” as “him,” as if it were a person?
They were influenced by Greek philosophy through the “logos doctrine” which came from Plato and Philo, and made its way into Christian thought by way of Justin, Origen, Athanasius and Augustine, and was promoted by 1300 years of false Catholic tradition. Their error has helped to lead millions of sincere Christians astray in their understanding of who the one true Elohim is!
A challenge made in love. Go to your library and find any book, encyclopedia, Bible concordance or dictionary that deals with the doctrine of the Trinity. Look in the subject index under “Divine logos doctrine” and it will refer you to Plato, Philo, and other Greek philosophers. Thus our understanding was corrupted!
What John meant in John 1:14.
And the word (logos - something said) was made flesh (Yahshuah, the Son of Elohim), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” What Elohim said became flesh!
These verses in John chapter one are at the heart of the debate as to Yahshuah's deity, and the key to a true Biblical understanding of who he is.
Yahshua is called the Son over 200 times throughout the "N.T" The Father is referred to as distinct from the Son over 200 times. Over 50 times Yahshuah the Son and the Father are mentioned in the same verse in clear distinction.
To think Yahshuah is Elohim is to totally mis understand the good news and what the True MissiYAH came to do, what slavation is and who are Father is. IT's DEEP
I'll get back to you tomorrow. Remember though I've already stated probably in this thread that I know that the Trinity doctrine is a product of Greek philosophy. I'm curious though what about my question made it seem like I was even trying to prove the Trinity? I was only asking about Yahshuah in John 1. Was He created by Elohim like angels or was He already in existence with Elohim by His side or something else?
John 1 coup
He didnt ask you for everything else
Explain away john 1
In the begining was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God.
Dont tell people the meaning of john 14 because u have no sacred yah reference for john 1
yo pay, I got a real good idea...
how about you get out. we anit talking to you nor does anybody want to hear you. u shred scriptures ..so don't tell me how to converse, especially when nobody tells you to speak.
yah, you was asking my thoughts...i digress. We can pick this up tomarrow and ill won't be so genearl when replying. Sorry to even sound like I thought other wise.
Haha thats rich, this is my thread dood. I was just pointing out u didnt answer his question. Like usual.
remember payback, speak when spoken to. You already agreed.
theres no one else in here therefore, your talking to me by default
It's all good Payback he was addressing my questions. We just got a little side tracked on the Trinity doctrine that's all. I'm working on my response today. That was good info Coup on those pre 1611 KJV renderings of 'him'. Interesting indeed.
yah that blew my mind...So I guess we can talk about john 1 now that we have the trinity doctrine out the way! looking forward to discussing it wit ya bruh!
Hey Coup I'm still working on my response but I'm almost done. Man I haven't had to dig around this much in a while. LOL! I had to sit on it overnight so I wouldn't let my own presuppositions cloud my judgment.
I do have an unrelated question. What is the difference between names YHWH and Elohim? What do their meanings communicate?
YHWH is the Fathers name (YAHUWAH) and Elohim is what some mean when they say "God"...but "God" is a Hellenization from the Germanic pagan deity of money "GAWD".
Notice on the back of the dollar it says "In God we Trust" ...that is not the El of the Hebrews...it's referring to the pagan GAWD.
Elohim has a nature of plurality in the name: Father and Son. It's like a tittle.
For example, YAHUWAH thy Elohim...it has been replaced with LORD thy GOD. (both are pagan titles...LORD=BAAL and GOD=GAWD)
El means "god"
DaniEL, angEL, garbirEL...all mean Elohim in their names.
Can Elohim kind of be thought of in (purely earthly illustration) like a family name? Like the Smith family?
Separate names with a comma.