What's the martial art to learn if you really want to beat the shit out of people?

Discussion in 'MMA, Boxing & Other Combat Sports' started by Tequila Jong-il, Oct 24, 2008.

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  1. Bootlegg

    Bootlegg New Member

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    Honestly if you're looking just to fight pick up boxing....Martial arts trains you to fight, but for self defense. There's no discipline or honor and it is disrespecting them.

    But I vote Krav Maga...it's very practical and designed to take on multiple opponents.
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  2. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    In a real fight situation (1 on 1), it's def'nitely Brazilian Jujitsu. Outside of mixed martial arts when they know Brazilian Jujitsu mixed with other martial arts, BJJ beats any single martial art, PERIOD. It's been proven in the early UFC days when black belts of a specific martial art came in 'n fought against Royce (regardless of size) and got their asses whooped. Plus, they also traveled across the world and dominated Masters of different respected martial arts....
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  3. Tequila Jong-il

    Tequila Jong-il SALAD TOSSER

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    Thanks for the input but i've decided to learn to be a ninja off youtube.
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  4. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

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    ha, not always. I respect BJJ, and it's true that plenty of good BJJ guys have disposed of other fighters, but that's usually only when the striker is fighting a stupid fight. Plus the best strikers in the world were NOT at the first couple UFCs to face the elite BJJ practicioner. Not even close.

    Kimo gave Royce all that he could handle before he won, and Kimo sucks.
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  5. SeeSon

    SeeSon New Member

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    I love the ground game and submissions in mma, but lets be honest, who is really pulling guard on cement? And if you are going to go for the take down, then wouldn't judo and wrestling be better for that to ground and pound anyway?
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  6. Ben Official

    Ben Official Active Member

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    royce gracie is not a top notch bjj fighter either, thats the whole reason they chose him over rickson to fight in the ufc. if rickson went in and demolished everyone it wouldn't send the same message, since rickson is the best in the world and is big and ripped. royce was a skinny dude and yeah, hes great at bjj but honnestly, hes not top level.


    bjj is probably the best for 1 on 1 fighting, easily. thats not really debated over much. nobody who knows anything is going to pull guard in a street fight. there are certain things in bjj that are just for competition and not for street fights, pulling guard is one of them. theres a few guys who i train with who say when they get in a fight they want to keep it standing no matter what. me, hell no. im taking the guy down. man, its insane how easy it is to toy with people on the ground when your so many levels above them.

    if theres multiple attackers, the best thing to know is probably track and field, lol. other than that krav maga, anything stand up, muay thai, boxing, whatever.
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  7. Ben Official

    Ben Official Active Member

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    i do bjj, wrestling, and judo. mostly bjj, but personally, i dont think i'd use judo in a street fight. maybe if i was a black belt, but im not. i would love to train no gi judo but not many people do that. if you train gi bjj its easy to do it without the gi, if you train judo, its doable but not as easy since so many of the throws rely on making grips on the gi. you gotta be really good to transfer over easily. ive been doing judo and wrestling about the same amount of time and with the same consistency, and i would definitely rely on wrestling takedowns. they come the most natural and i believe they are most effective. its not hard to take someone down who doesnt have a wrestling background. and bjj trains take downs as well, but not as extensively as wrestling or judo of course. not everyone in bjj pulls guard, many including me are against it, even in competition. in fact i only pulled guard once in competition when the guys was stalling and left me no other choice
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  8. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

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    In all fairness though, BJJ practitioners were whooping stand up guys before BJJ was widely known, so the stand up fighters had no idea what they had to defend against, while the BJJ guys did.

    When fighters were finally aware of BJJ's strengths, they prepared for it accordingly and plenty of guys with striking as their base have beaten guys with BJJ as their base since. This doesn't mean they've mastered BJJ, but they're familiar with it enough to defend themselves and utilize the strengths of their own discipline in turn.

    So basically, on a more even playing field, it comes down to who does the right thing in the chaos of battle with no distinct advantage for one discipline.
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  9. SeeSon

    SeeSon New Member

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    Wow, I didn't know that. Thanks for letting me know. I am anxious to find a BJJ place. I have the same frustrations with Judo that you do. I asked my sensei how I would perform some of the throws with a guy that didn't have a gi on, and he really didn't have a good reply, so ever since then, I've been turned off by it.
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  10. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

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    and ben, does that mean that rickson is the best gracie in your opinion?
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  11. Ben Official

    Ben Official Active Member

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    rickson is not only the best gracie, without question, he is the best bjj practitioner in the world.
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  12. Ben Official

    Ben Official Active Member

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    dont get me wrong, there are plenty of throws you can do no gi, for example grabbine their wrist instead of their sleeve, grabbing the back of their neck instead of their collar, grabbing around their hip, grabbing around their back under their arm pit, there are plenty of throws to do. there are also people that have transferred great from traditional to no gi judo, for example karo parisyan. also satoshi ishii, 2008 olympic judo gold medalist is now moving to mma so lets see how he does
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  13. Ben Official

    Ben Official Active Member

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    and yes, i do agree. but the thing is fighting is always changing. if you want to be the best you can't know just one fighting style anymore. otherwise your weaknesses will be exposed soon enough. i still believe generally bjj vs any other one fighting style is the best, but it also depends on the fighter. not every bjj black belt will beat a great boxer for example.
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  14. El Dopa

    El Dopa Concentrated Macahol

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    oh.

    I knew he was highly acclaimed, but I didn't know it was like that.
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  15. SiFu

    SiFu Burning Down Babylon!

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    In competition then BJJ is easily the dominant style....


    In a street fight, BJJ isnt as useful as it may seem....like I say, grappling in a bar or on the street isnt advised by anyone who has been in multiple street fights....there are no rules, you goto the ground you will get stomped!!! (where the fuck do people fight one on one in the streets?? in the old days maybe, now days its full on with multiple people going at it, the ground is not where you want to be......


    BJJ is a great style, and defo something worth learning, but like I said, some styles could never enter the UFC, as a lot of styles rely on moves that arent allowed, or ever allowed in the UFC, throat strikes, eye strikes etc etc....its easy to grapple a guy when he cant gauge your eyes out, or bite huge chunks out your legs or try to rip your nuts, coz believe if I fight a BJJ guy and he takes me down, I'm fish hooking I'm gauging and I'm biting, thats a real fight, not competition....Wing Chun will never be good in competition, many many styles arent good in compeition coz they are for real fighting, fighting where your life may be in danger......


    All you need against a BJJ fighter is a good take down defense....if they cant take you down what else do they have??? Obviously its easier said than done, but some guys are well known for their take down defense, BJJ isnt the ultimate style, as someone said it takes a combination of many styles to be a truly effective fighter.


    For bar fighting, Krav and Wing would be my choices without question


    PEACE
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  16. Ben Official

    Ben Official Active Member

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    ^ yeah, for bar fighting its definitely not smart to take the guy down when there are multiple people going at it. if i was drunk and there were multiple attackers i will admit, i would rely on bjj because its what i feel most comfortable with personally. thats not to say i wouldnt get completely stomped out and my face kicked in, im sure if there were multiple people trying to beat my ass that would happen, and chances are that will happen with almost any fighting style. krav maga would probably be the best in preparation for this but unless you've dedicated yourself to it for years, nobodies taking on multiple attackers if the attackers have any sense of fighting ability.

    as far as the eye gouging and biting, ehh. i wouldnt say that will neutralize a good bjj fighter. sure its annoying, but believe me, we have wayyyy more dirty tricks up our sleeves than eye gouging. lots of dirty tricks that arent aloud in competition.


    ALSO i would like to add, since i am of course biased to bjj, that its not a fighting style where you 100% have to take the guy down to be able to work anything. there IS a self defense aspect of it. just as an example my trainer and i were training with steak knives the other week to work our knife defenses. we work everything standing up from breaking a guys wrist if he puts his hands on you (standing up), choking people out from your feet, to escaping everything from a bear hug to a standing guillotine to a head lock to being attempted to be thrown, from a punch, from a kick, all types of throws, everything. and just because i take bjj doesnt mean im not going to hit the guy. nowadays a lot of bjj schools focus solely on the competition part of it, which kind of takes away from the self defense aspect. but we definitely, definitely work self defense and we do not by any means have to take the guy to the ground to defend ourselves or finish him.
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  17. Ben Official

    Ben Official Active Member

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    just an interesting video. heres rickson and royler demonstrating the self defense aspect of jiu jitsu. keep in mind there are also opportunities to kick and punch, for example after you throw the guy, you dont have to go for an arm bar, you can keep his arm and stomp his face in. you arent limited to submissions. another thing they didnt really show here is that there are plenty of arm bars you can do standing up, you dont always have to throw the attacker. its just a cool video

    [youtube]jO-_Q85zwUo[/youtube]
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  18. SiFu

    SiFu Burning Down Babylon!

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    ^^Thats some good points....a skilled BJJ fighter can very well brake your arm/neck/wrist etc from a standing position, and in a street fight I would recommend that, nothing scares potential attackers like hearing the bones brake of one of their homies hahaha For me a broken nose or jaw has had the same effect (although I am only a 1st Dan black belt in Shotokan Karate).....if its one on one and you can take a punch, then by all means charge in take the dude down and choke him out, it will work 99% of the time against an unskilled fighter, even a skilled one (not BJJ) would get choked out most of the time, if you can take a punch that is (coz you gotta get close to take someone down, chances are you'll get caught at least once)......


    I aint mean to come off like BJJ doesnt have many great techniques, many great techniques that can be used on the streets or in any situation...its just for a regular practioner someone biting and gauging would be much more than just an annoyance obviously someone with good skills would choke you out before you had a chance to bite or gauge hahahaha it all depends on the skill of the fighter your up against....


    Beating multiple attackers isnt easy, and as you rightfully said you'd have to train very hard to have a good chance!!!

    Martial Arts is about survival, and if running away means you'll surivive then that is the best technique to use!!! My Karate instructor always said run first (against multiple people) and then pick them off in small groups (1's and 2's) and keep running!!!! hahahaha Once I got surrounded by 9 people.....I looked for what I thought was the weakest looking one, lunged with a punch to his face then ran through the hole!!! and boy did I run hahahahaha but I survived with no injury!!!! hahahaha


    PEACE
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  19. nightbird

    nightbird I Do It Like It's My Job

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    That was a good video, really demonstrated Ricksons skill.
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  20. Mac Sabbath

    Mac Sabbath New Member

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    I think a combination of good footwork, well-rounded striking, and takedown defense can beat a BJJ player a high percentage of the time. In nearly all the early examples I've read about BJJ beating some kind of striking based art, it was almost always some brash, cocky guy that underestimated his opponent. I think BJJ is not only respectable, but great. I just don't subscribe to it being unquestionably the best discipline.

    Wanderlei beat up quite a few submission specialists without utilizing his BJJ experience. As we all know, he's a tough brawler but not the best striker.
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