What is world poverty becoming?

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by McGirth, Oct 4, 2007.

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  1. McGirth

    McGirth New Member

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    In the past, poverty had meant pain and suffering as well as the denial of pleasure. If you didn't have money or any legal status - you would starve or worse, be subject to being property and violence of cruel masters. You likewise could not afford anything; however, since not everything was property yet, there was still much natural beauty which could be had. Everything wasn't fenced off and controlled.

    In the last 50 years or so there has been a great movement to eliminate poverty. But which part of property is being eliminated? and what is poverty throughout the world today and what will it become in the future?

    the parts eliminated seem to be a lack of legal status, starvation, disease and suffering. The human rights movement is ensuring that everyone is a legal person and hence cannot be subject to property/violence/etc. There are mass efforts to combat starvation and disease among the poor.

    So what's left?

    Sterility. A small white walled condo in the mass suburbs on the outskirts of the city; a television and the internet for watching life, not participating in it; and food, and water, and shelter. No pain because its illegal and has been wiped out. No pleasure because if anything, with everything appropriated its gotten more expensive. No more natural beauty - as its all been transformed into property/fenced off, whether private or of the state: it is guarded either way.

    So what is poverty around the world becoming:
    Just pure, white-walled, sterility.
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  2. Sodium

    Sodium I Get Computers Putin'

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    i was having this conversation w/ my dad right. i told him the only way communism would work (cause he on some crazy che guevara shit right) was if technologies could provide and maintain an at least above average level of luxury for the people. since the whole point of communism is to maintain a functional level of living (never going over or under but just staying at that functional level). if life is hard (poverty) the people won't accept it and it will crumble. but if life is pretty good by default...


    well i say that to say this. yeah i agree that poverty is becoming upgraded so to speak. the bar is being raised. its been getting raised since the very start of civilization with the continual progress of technology. we're only now starting to reach a point where technology can shove poverty to a level where it aint really that bad. yeah life is easier (and will be even easier in the future) now but the world doesnt seem to have to romance to it no more. can you feel it? that edge we used to have we just dont really got it no more.

    i dont think things will remain sterile though. check this out right i think people in their pleasant and easy lives will just manufacture their adventures themselves instead of letting life do it for them. kind of like how today we play sports in replacment to hunting lions or going to war feel me? culture will get fragmented into a bunch mini adventures people will play.

    i guess a good analogy for it would be like highschool: goth kids, surf kids, hip hop, punk rockers, this, that, whatever.

    think of the way japanese culture is.
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  3. Sodium

    Sodium I Get Computers Putin'

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    how are you supposed to change the world by the way. tell me the secret.
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  4. who-flung-poo-e

    who-flung-poo-e Zhōngguó Crew

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    ivory tower chigga get to da front lines with some stock if ya wanna be like monia lewinsky
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  5. I've been talking about this since.. forever.

    Stagnation. The most damnable virtue humans subconsciously strive for.

    While the same in approach, stability is a platform for growth. But stagnation is a system of limitations created out of fear. The outcome is rarely the same.
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  6. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    All y'all some fuckin' eurocentric egotistical ASSES. Come roun here with that. White walled suburban shit? Try Bahamians dem living in squalor in an area we called "over the hill" where electricity is optional, and only the very wealthy have generators for the multiple times a week (sometimes a day) that the electricity goes smooth OFF. Round here, what you pay 20/mo for for internet, it costs us 100/mo, and not many of us can afford that. Here, Cholera is still an issue, as is small pox. Yes, we have billionaires, yes we have doctors and lawyers [look], but we also have people whose means of living has changed little since the days just following slavery.

    AND THIS IS ONE OF THE BETTER ISLAND NATIONS IN THE CARIBBEAN/WEST INDIES.

    Don't go to haiti with this nonsense bout poverty no longer means pain or what have you. I can get this thread if you only said "america" or "U.S.A.", but I am now sitting about a half hour away from Miami by plane in a country where running water and electricity is still a veritable luxury in some neighborhoods not 2 miles from here. In high school, kids used to brag "nah uh, the road by where I does live is paved!"

    PAVED ROADS! We brag bout PAVED FUCKIN' ROADS! I laugh at people who complain in the U.S. for poverty. One dude I know until recently was making absofuckinglutely NO money in sherman oaks and constantly claimed he was poor. Borrowed clothes and all. But his 2 story apt. he rented with friends of his made me chuckle. He made 3 thousand more than the national average of my country.

    Poverty is relative. That dude was poor. I'd slit my wrist if I made as little as he used to (he recently came THE FUCK UP, tho). But he would have been ABOVE AVERAGE here where American rich people come to vacation and Bahamian rich people stay and fuckin' DIE.

    I was stateside strugglin' with 60k/yr. I come here and see some of my relatives dem and see them smilin' wit nothin' but God and Church.

    Poverty has not gone anywhere if you have brown skin.

    The audacity of Americans to claim it's gone.
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  7. Sodium

    Sodium I Get Computers Putin'

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    its not that its gone but that its getting better. like for example in your post you talk about how poverty in the states is not as bad as poverty in other spots. that poverty is relative. well in the future there will be a new poverty. poverty will have a new face and it will look something like wwhat mcgit said i think. life with little struggle and thus ----> through that more hedonism ultimately. i think.
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  8. Let's look at what Poverty was doing 150 years ago:

    [​IMG]

    Let's look at what Poverty was doing 150 seconds ago:

    [​IMG]
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  10. KingMenace

    KingMenace YOU MAD.

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    Are you promoting poverty as means to ensure the prosperity of a few? Sorry, but I haven't seen a grand reduction in world poverty. It's promised with every new trade agreement and loss of worker rights and the concessions to corporations allowing them to bypass laws and regulations instituted to promote the safety and security of the population at large.
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  11. McGirth

    McGirth New Member

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    Kingmenace: I'm not promoting anything. I'm making an observation that poverty is changing in form & maybe sparking someone into realizing that maybe this new form of poverty isn't all that. The reason you haven' seen any changes in poverty in terms of statistics of eliminating poverty is because, as i put it, its changing forms.

    The modern movement to combat poverty - de facto - is about changing its form from one sort of poverty to another.


    Soultan: As Sodium pointed out, I'm arguing its changing forms, not that it has completely shifted in forms yet.

    Ghet: What do you think is stagnant about the new poverty? The lives of the poor?If so, where the lives of the poor less stagnant in the past? Also, how does the lives of the poor being stagnant relate to the stagnation of the system as a whole?

    Sodium: i would say its changing in forms/is being transformed rather than its getting better. Also, I remember reading MARX somewhere saying that Communism can only occur IF/when science ends.
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  12. Poverty is an ambiguious term designed to strike fear and pity into specific groups of people.

    As an Amoral Materialist, I don't play that game.

    Therefore, poverty is simply a lack of power. We can throw as many clothes and food and money and medicine at a population all day to pat ourselves on the back and give the illusion that we are helping, but in the end, they will want what they have always wanted: more power.

    Take Cambodia for example. Clinton signed exclusive rights with their textile industry, giving them high-bid contracts with Gucci, Prada, etc. as long as they created a working environment conducive to Socialist expectations. (unions, work hours, health care, benefits, etc.) And while the contract was up, things looked great. But in the spirit of their total misunderstanding of how economics worked, the Democrats eventaully terminated the contract, and now, many Cambodian workers have gotten used to the treatment and joys of Socialized work conditions and refuse to work. All this means is that the Cambodian textile industry moved entirely to Vietnam and hires workers for a bowl of rice a day.

    Socialists did this for the strict intention of 'giving a taste of heaven and then yanking the chain'. They essentially intentionally created future dissent. They always have. They create demographics out of thin air to vote for them. They set them up, then collect them all later and turn them into meatshields, give them AK47s, and send them somewhere to die for the cause of the month.

    And then they're well-meaning but severely neurologically deficient supporters run up to defend such actions with "BUT IT'S THE INTENTION THAT COUNTS!"

    No. It's the outcome that counts. That's the point of power.

    Poverty is a lack of power. It is in the interests of the infrastructures that provide the powerless the materials they need to keep them sedated and at bay. That is why we sell them our old weapons as well. That's why we give them samples of high bid contracts only to inject a temporary good spot in their economy, only for it to fall apart later. The best we, the powerful who give the world what they need materially, can do is create the illusion that the powerless can resist and that they have options. But we must never give them the illusion that they can win or that we can capitulate. We can give up on one policy (The Chinese Proxy state of Vietnam) only to turn around and force policy (Capitalism in China) at another avenue and win there.

    To defeat the poor, you must cater to their carnal will. As long as you control the drip of whatever material demand a location needs, you control the scarcity. By doing so, local populations will measure progress materially, and not along the actual measuring stick of power and influence. Essentially, you stagnate actual progress and subplant it with a fantasy definition of progress. All the while, driving them into debt.

    That's how we roll, nukka.
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  13. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    what are we looking at here? Want me to show you a starving kid in zimbabwe or a malnurished eastern eurpoean? You showed soldiers, then a german wiki site. I'm seriously missing you here.
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  14. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    I see what you mean, but this is not true for the people a mile west of where I am sitting right now in Nassau, Bahamas; and this is the most developed island in the country in the most developed country in the caribbean, so I know it can't possibly be true for jamrock, haiti, trinidad, etc.

    Poverty is still today what it was 150 years ago HERE.
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  15. Someone else wish to explain the stark contrast I am attempting to point out between what poverty was once defined as to one population and what it is now to the same population 150 years later?

    Poverty, that is, the lack of power, is a highly localized term.
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  16. Sodium

    Sodium I Get Computers Putin'

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    mcgristh i dont understand why you think the world will become boring. it sounds like youre trying to combat the sterility inside of yourself that you've built up from all that schoolin' and being so smart. you want to be a regular human. so here is what you should do. buy some new clothes and go smoke some weed and fuck a prostitute. no lie. bring some rap music too you're going to need that. but nothing that involves too much thinking. i got you if you need some more ideas.
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  17. McGirth

    McGirth New Member

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    i went to eastern europe, i went out of my way to get out of the city cores. Poverty is EXACTLY how i described it in eastern europe. LOCALS cant even go to the core anymore except to work, only foreigners with money can go since its so damn expensive for locals.
    Its also like that in Western europe too, look like places like North of Paris, where the car torching broke out. (where i've stayed also) This place is a perfect example of the new poverty. Didn't see any starving people in either eastern europe or in parisian condo suburbs.


    I'd argue its also happening in the US , think of places like Harlem. Isn't it being gentrified/has been for the last 15 years? Where do you think the poor that were there go when rich urbanites move into their homes? They can't afford the city anymore, they move those white-walled condos in the suburbs. I don't think it will/is happening on the west coast as much because stuff was built more spaced out to begin with, but i'm not sure since i haven't been to cali in forever. Basically the east coast city ghetto is disapearing in many areas & is being replaced by the white-walled sterile condo variety ghetto that looks something, to be frank, like a hospital ward. (hence sterile)

    here is a nice views of the way out of Bratislava city center to the white-walled sterile suburbs:
    [​IMG]

    but your right, not every area of the world has been converted to the new poverty yet.


    sodium: I don't live in a white-walled sterile suburban condo, but more suggestions please!
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  18. McGirth

    McGirth New Member

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    Ghet: so are you saying wikipedia is poverty?
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  19. McGirth

    McGirth New Member

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    agreed on those parts BUT i would qualify that the new poverty is a lack of power over PEOPLE (single children with no cousins that live in a 2 1/2 in the suburbs) and slight power over material things (i.e. they have food).
    By contrast, the old poverty is slight power over people (due to large families/ghetto communities) and a lack of power over actual things (i.e. no food).
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  20. Sodium

    Sodium I Get Computers Putin'

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    i dont understand. that looks like the projects to me. how can any dense cluster of poor people become sterile. motherfuckers like to get high. that fact alone tends to keep shit interesting/funky.
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