What is believers beef with atheism..

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by lyricalpriest, Jan 15, 2012.

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  1. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    It has always been diretly related to materialism. Summed up, the more materialistic a society is, the less spiritual it becomes. The less spiritual it becomes, the stronger atheism affects that society.

    Therefore, the more materialistic a society becomes, the more atheism strengthens over it.

    Atheism relies mostly on logic, analysis, and science. They do not believe in faith, nor the miracles of the Bible.

    Atheism, though has major flaws. At first glance, it seems atheism has a strong, irrefutable, non-debatable position. Like so many things in this world, it looks good only on the outside, but actually is weak on the inside - a foundation built on sand.

    Atheism has three major flaws:

    Atheist Statement No. 1 - "Atheism declares it does not believe in faith, that science is the way to truth because it does not rely on faith unlike religion. Science does not rely on faith and therefore cannot be biased."

    Christian answer: Even in science, we still need a certain degree of faith in scientists and researchers since we ourselves cannot possibly verify all their findings to prove that what they are saying is true.

    Unless you can verify scientists' findings one by one for yourself, you will have to accept their "word" at face value. You will have to believe that what they're saying is true. You will have to have "faith" in their words.

    Look. In the past, we've had "scientific errors" committed by scientists. Errors such as scientific facts that were declared as truth but were later found out to be false or in doubt.

    Among numerous examples, one example is found in medical science. For many years, scientists/researchers have always declared that damage to the human spinal cord was permanent and irreversible. This was a scientific fact, established as the truth before.

    However, only recently, this previous scientific fact was proven to be, well, untrue. Modern findings have proven that the human spinal cord does regenerate, albeit, in a very slow manner. A lot of people with damaged spinal cords have been able to walk, much against the declaration of their doctors that all hope was lost.

    That science is not based on faith is totally false. Therefore, this refutes the first statement of atheism.

    As St. Francis of Assisi wisely said "Faith is higher than reason. Reason is useless.... unless you believe."


    Atheist Statement No. 2 - "Science is based only on purely objective facts, while religion is partially subjective and therefore cannot be purely objective. "

    Christian answer: Science relies on objectivity, and needs to utilize a method called the "scientific method". The scientific method relies on observation, experimentation, data-gathering, etc.

    Once science loses its objectivity, or becomes partially subjective, it loses its credibility as a discipline.

    Therein lies the problem. The scientific method does provide purely objective data, BUT scientists still have to "interpret them. Since scientists are only human, the interpretation of the data becomes mixed with personal opinions and become "partially subjective". This cannot be avoided.

    Scientists are human beings with different beliefs, religions, philosophies, and come from various countries and cultures throughout the globe.

    Take for example the debate on the origin of the universe. This major debate has been going on for centuries, and has divided the scientific community into "creationist scientists" and "evolutionist scientists".

    The creationist scientists believe that the universe has order, design, and was created by an intelligent, omnpiotent being, a god. God is the creator of the universe.

    The evolutionist scientists believe otherwise. They state that the universe has no design, has no order and is random. They reject the idea of a god, a creator of our universe.

    And it doesn't even matter who has more numbers on either side. The truth is never based on "majority wins".

    Say for example, my friend and I hid a silver coin inside a box. Now, we make a survey and ask all people around the world if they believe a coin exists in the box or not.

    Even if all people around the world said they don't believe a coin exists in the box, the truth is not affected by their numbers. My friend and I know the truth that a coin does exist because we hid it ourselves! So truth is not based on majority opinion.

    Atheist statement number 2 is therefore false.


    Atheist Statement No. 3) "Science is better than religion because it relies on an objective method - the scientific method. This method produces truth because it is based on objective data, experimentations, logic, etc. Religion does not use an objective method and is based on opinion, speculation, etc. It lacks "scientific proof", on "miracles" in the Holy Bible."

    Christian answer: Science does rely on an objective method, but by what authority does the "scientific method" produce truth? By what authority does science possess when it says we must believe science because it utilizes the "scientific method"?

    I mean you cannot state that science is an authority of truth simpy because it uses the scientific method. It's like saying "I therefore conclude that science produces truth because it uses the scientific method."

    By what authority?

    How will you prove using the scientific method does produce truth? Because it's "scientific"? Because science said so? Again, the question "By what authority does science have by proclaiming to be the truth than religion"?

    The statement "The results of the scientific method should be followed" is unscientific because it is a value statement that does not get its authority from anywhere but itself.

    "We should use the scientific method." Why should we? "It proves itself." How does it prove itself? "It uses the scientific method."

    Atheist Statement: "The scientific method is true because it works and because it is axiomatic (self-evident)."

    Christian answer: Sounds a lot like faith to me. Who decides what is axiomatic? does the scientific method decide it? That makes it circular if it does. If not, then it is not scientific itself.

    I would have to do all the experiments to come to that conclusion. Other than that, I take it on faith that all of the scientists who did the experiments and reviewed them and tested them are not lying to me. That is my point.

    You cannot use the "scientific method" as a reason to make science as an authority of truth, simply because the only way to prove science as the truth is to use the "scientific method"! The logic is circular.

    And yes, the miracles in the Bible have been verified by both atheist (for objectivity) and theist (God-believing) scientists as true historical events. Events such as the Exodus from Egypt, David slaying Goliath, parting of the Red Sea, etc. were tested and researched using modern scientific methods. Watch "Secrets of the Bible" at Cable TV's "Discovery Channel".

    At a different cable channel, underwater cameras showed pictures of ancient relics -particularly a large "chariot wheel" deep beneath the Red Sea. When traced back, the design of the wheel was identical to the chariots used in Egypt at around the time Moses' parting of the Red Sea occurred!

    God has been so gracious as to provide solid, irrefutable evidence to believers and non-believers alike.

    Atheist statement number 3 is therefore false
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  2. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    -All atheists believe in evolution, which means they don't believe in morality and think we should all act like animals.

    -Atheists try to shift the burden of proof unfairly upon theists (ie, atheists make the wild and unprovable claim that God does not exist, and then unfairly expect us Christians to prove that He DOES exist)

    -Some famous atheists have shown they occasionally have doubts about their disbelief, which proves that all atheists really do believe in God. Of course, no Christian has ever doubted the existence of God.



    -Everybody who has ever been in the army will tell you that there are no atheists in foxholes. That is, once they are in danger of death, the atheist will strip himself of his irrational disbelief in God, and come to admit he believed in God all along. Only liberal slimebags like MSNBC report otherwise.

    -Communism, which is inherently evil, is founded by atheism, and all atheists are probably secret communists.

    -Everything in the universe shows obvious and undeniable signs that it was created by a mind far superior to our own.

    -a lot of mass murderers were atheists, and all atheists, having no morality to guide them, are only a bad day away from going on a genocide spree. There have no exactly zero cases on Christian mass murderers throughout all of history.

    -Countries with large numbers of atheists have higher suicide rates, therefore atheism makes you want to kill yourself. Of course they would take the easy way out, not realizing like normal people that God sends suicide cases to hell. Also, developed nations also tend to have higher rates of both atheism and suicide, so we must conclude that technology and wealth are evil.

    -Causes of atheism (I quote): moral depravity, rebellion, superficiality, error, state churches, poor relationship with father, division in religion, learned times, peace, and prosperity, negative experiences with theists, scientism.



    -atheists question why evil exists since God is good, but don't ask why good exists if God isn't real.


    -Notable atheists have converted to Christianity. The reverse never happens.

    -atheists criticism of the Bible can't be trusted because, I quote: "a thorough understanding of the Bible -- and this would actually apply to any complex work from any culture -- requires specialized knowledge, and a broad range of specialized knowledge in a variety of fields.... Not even most scholars in the field can master every aspect"



    -atheists do not really exist, they just pretend that they don't believe in God.
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  3. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

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    So...much....wrong...with....OP.

    Dear god I hope you are not serious. This is the dumbest thing I've read in....days on this forum. I will get to a real refutation of this stupidity, when Texans/Ravens becomes less interesting.
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  4. DemiGod

    DemiGod Peef Rimgar

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    Wow LP......
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  5. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    I certainly hope you are being sarcastic. If you really mean this garbage, I pity you.
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  6. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

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    lol the fuck are you talking about? That didn't even make any sense. Not really a smart one, are ya?
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  7. DemiGod

    DemiGod Peef Rimgar

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    Posts are full of ignorance.
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  8. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

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    Yes they are, and so little of it is even WORTH addressing, I'm debating whether to bother. Texans?Ravens too good right now lol
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  9. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    why are you so full of hate? I don't understand your horrible intolerance towards Christianity. What have we ever done to you? We try to spread love to the world, and you come on here and mock us. Your just proof of how empty and bitter the heart of an atheist really is

    Luckily, Jesus said I'm blessed by your persecution
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  10. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

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    Well if you read my thread that you pulled the jack move on the title from, then you'd know. And I'd like to add the dishonesty of it's followers. Literally half of the things in your OP are outright lies.
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  11. DemiGod

    DemiGod Peef Rimgar

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    Post like yours are what cause beef with Christians.
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  12. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    pick one lie to present to me. that i provided please and lets go from there
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  13. DemiGod

    DemiGod Peef Rimgar

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    -All atheists believe in evolution, which means they don't believe in morality and think we should all act like animals.
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  14. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    Don't lie now. According to you, there is no reason we CAN'T act like animals, rather than our own choices.
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  15. DemiGod

    DemiGod Peef Rimgar

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    I have no words for this. I'm done with this forum. You have successfully made me give up on people.
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  16. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Belief in evolution does not entail non-belief in morality. We are animals. Most Christians accept evolution and deny a literal interpretation of Genesis.

    Theistic evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Both blatant lies.

    B.S.

    Insanity.

    Burden of proof rests on you.

    Done with this troll post.
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  17. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

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    When you get your "morality" from the bible. That is a jealous, petty murderous asshole that expects you to adhere to absurd standards that he himself does not follow, I could see where you would be pretty ignorant to what morality actually is.


    "Herp derp if there's no god and evolution is true then there's no meaning to life and everyone can do whatever they want!"
    ^^^Unevolved perception of life and morality

    Edit: The fuck...
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  18. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    umm.. ^^ i apologize for that nitemare-x i unintentionally editted ur post out.. i ment to press the quote button not the edit button..

    i am sincerely sorry

    nite mare was sayin' that something about "herp derp christians are illogical herp derp"
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  19. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    :ban:
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  20. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

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    lol I'll do the "Christian" thing, and forgive him.

    Though, being a heathen with no morality, I'm not sure how that's physically possible. o_O
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