What do you do in Heaven?

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by The Steve, Jan 15, 2011.

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  1. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Ill give u a boost..its called the 2nd death. So when u say the bible is clear about what death means, okay.. although it is used in various ways.
    Biotch! You wish you had a phone like mine...
    test
  2. M-theory

    M-theory Saint Esprit

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    Death means you are dead. You really die. You are permitted this death. It is a death as real as death can get, but it is not final. We remain dead until the day of judgment when Christ returns at the last trump. The dead are resurrected (brought back to life) and must give account in that day. The second death is reserved for those who are not worthy of God's kingdom and are judged for it. The second death is final.

    The finality of the first death on the other hand is what you should call into question. I have a feeling you will understand this and agree pretty well with this, and would wonder why Shadow puts so much emphasis on words which I can feel you on.

    What he's getting at is that life and death are not interchangeable in any sense. I think a lot of arguments about beliefs are based on how someone chooses to explain what they believe. Maybe you're not entirely certain about what happens at death but you know that you will still have a life in Heaven, whereas others will have a second death. I may be wrong but I don't think Shadow disagrees with this. I think what he wants is clarity, and is telling you that this first death is a real death just like any death and we will not be conscious following it (it will be as if we do not exist) because that's what death is. But I don't think he is arguing for the first death to be the only death that anyone shall ever face. What I think he believes is that God can and will bring us out of death. We will exist yet again. The first death isn't final. The second death is.

    I assumed this a while ago that you two were giving each other the run around because Shadow seems interested in a clear and literal truth whereas when you are speaking of not really dying it is in a sense more figurative based on how you account for there being two deaths. Shadow is telling you that the first death is literal. He's not arguing for the finality of that death. That death isn't final. The second death is. But death is the same in both instances, where it will be as if you don't exist. When you die you will not be a floating spirit who has a conscience because to have a conscience you need a brain. To have a brain you need a body.

    The major difference I see between your beliefs and his is that where you appear to believe in a resurrection into spirit bodies, he seems to believe that this is not the case. He believes we will have physical bodies just like we do now - that there is nothing imperfect about physical bodies as there will not be sin; rather everything that is now will be set right in the end as God intended it in the beginning. Anything else would be that God screwed up when He made Adam.


    And to Shadow

    Firstly, if I've misrepresented your beliefs above please step in.

    But I don't remember if it was in this thread or another one but I didn't get to responding to you in our discussion about Adam being created perfect. You asked me my definition of perfect? Ummm, well I mean I can be flexible but I really don't see that my definition would really differ the standard being whole or complete, with all the necessities. We need to dig further and look at how I come to point of denying Adam was made perfect in the first place, assuming that you accept the definition and derive your beliefs from the same idea.

    What does it mean to be complete, and to contain all necessary parts?

    Coincidentally I don't see this question that I pose to myself as being anything other than a tactical dissemination of my own argument. Why? Because if we both define perfect the same way, then it's where your question inevitably leads to. Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. I might as well erect a straw man argument, unless you are willing to subject yourself to an even playing field.

    So I leave you with a different question:

    Do you accept the doctrine of Original Sin? A clear Yes or No is all that's needed if that's how you'd prefer to answer it.

    I chose this question because it is not underhanded, yet depending on how you answer it I might be alleviated from the tense feeling I get about sharing my views on how I answer the other question and how that relates to the idea of Adam being created perfect. I do have to face the fact that I don't have a full confidence in my views after all. I don't have much respect for the genius of the crowd... and I'm afraid of what that makes me. lol

    I can't answer for why I feel even the least bit sensitive about this discussion but I guess it's because I'm brave enough to handle it, yet smart enough to know better. :funny:
    test
  3. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    I can get that. Okay well my undersatnding is the body dies returning the the earth, at the point of death u are greated either by angels, jesus, or demons and wether u assend to heaven ur pulled in a direction. Either comforted or begining or realization of torment and hope. From there ur taken into heavenly realms or hellish realms to your temp holding until time on earth is up and the white thrown judgement. The ones doomed to torment are cast into outter darkness along with hell into the lake of fire () that what ive gotten from mo study
    Biotch! You wish you had a phone like mine...
    test
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