Wanksters and Wiggers: Do they drive the industry?

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum, Oct 12, 2007.

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  1. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    As many of you know, I went to a college full of black dudes...(and the homie Shook). The nature of this school meant that there were a ton of rich kids there. It's why they call Morehouse a Black Ivy. However, the oddest thing would happen once you got there.

    1. There were usually only 2 or 3 gay freshman out of 900. That number quickly rose to about 270 by the end of the year. (away from home/out of the closet).

    2. Idunno about now, but in '94 my freshman year, EVERYONE was hood. New York kids looked like extras from a Wu Tang video or fresh out a Spike Lee Movie claimin' bedstuy or S. Bronx. Atl kids all acted like the lost member of 'kast (damn shame that 'kast is still the pre-eminent group from there 13 years later), cats from Fla. were all on that Uncle luke shit and claimed they were pimps and N.O. cats were all actin' like they were from the 9th ward. EVERYONE was on they hood shit, EVERYONE was a gangster. We won't even get into the fake crips and bloods.

    HOW DID WE FIND OUT THEY WERE FAKE?

    Parents week. I never was one to front, but then again, I was a nerdy honor's student, no one would have believed I was some sort of a thug, and no one knows what a Bahamian thug wears or does. They'd shit their pants if they did.

    But suddenly, everyone who was a thug the week BEFORE and acted like they were from a single parent home with six kids in Brooklyn suddenly had khaki pants, blue blazers and knew how to tie a double windsor not and had TWO parents who were JUST LIKE MINE. Same fraternities and sororities; same alma maters, same secret societies; handshakes, whispers and Roth accounts. Suddenly "Gangsta Vertigo" is "Geoffrey"...

    We go hard on these cats who we want to call "wiggers", but no one ever calls out the wanksters. I look at them all the same. It's stupid to want to claim hood, if you ask the sociologist in me, but as far as music business; I think it is people like this who drive the sales up. People who want so hard to be like their idols that they are willing to lie about anything redeemable about themselves for the sake of style. THOSE are the people dumb enough to cop the Soulja Boy album, because real hood cats are not making these dudes go platinum. There simply are not enough of them, and I'm sorry: if your main market is poor blacks, you have built your business home on sand. Build it on the rock hard heads of rich kids with something to prove and exhorbitant (sp) allowances from daddy.

    What y'all think? We laugh hard at wiggers and wanksters, but would the hip hop industry - the one many of you strive to make a living off of - even exist at the level it does if not for the posers?

    And if this IS the service they provide, does that therefore mean that we need to stop clowning them?

    For this, yeah. I think it does. We should stop clowning them and respect them as the fiscal bloodforce of the rap/hip hop business culture.
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  2. Sodium

    Sodium I Get Computers Putin'

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    Thats a good article. uh i don't understand what you mean though when you say we should italics respect them. You basically dehumanize them and reduce them to the level of "bloodforce" i.e. the inanimate things that keep the higher beings (you, I guess) alive. thats pretty direspectful. it comes from a philosophy of sperating people into groups instead of accepting everyone as just people. something youre good at.

    But other than that I agree with your point that wanting to live up to a fantasy keeps the music alive. But thats not bad because we all do that on some level. Even you.
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  3. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    We live in a capitalist society, my friend. Just like the black underclass are respected as the backs upon which this capitalist structure has thrived for so long (now replaced with mexicans and outsourced labor in the service industry), so too should we respect the posers for driving the recording industry. For the record, I do not sustain myself off of them. I just do music for fun. However, we would have nothing to download illegally if posers all over the world did not buy rap albums as a part of their desire to "be down".

    Don't believe me? Go to a a rap festival like "Rock The Bells" and see if the crowd looks anything like the performers. The stage I saw out in San Bernardino was Mos Def, The Coup, Murs and the like, and the crowd? They looked completely alien, like if I took a picture of the crowd, I would presume I was at some rock fest or something; Alanis Morissette, Regina Spektor, Sparklehorse (I'm just naming the non-black bands I like) or even Necro and Slug and some other white netcee, but these were patently black - some even extremely pro-black - artists on stage and the crowd new every single word of every song.

    See, I'm old as hell. I'm 31. I am from an era where whites didn't listen to hip hop. I'm from an era where most blacks were still listenning to Stevie Wonder and Prince, Earth Wind and Fire. I was an outcast amidst most of my peers because I was this little rich black kid who steadily was bumping Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five and the Sugarhill Gang in N. Cali. We didn't have much of a rap scene to ourselves; we were still on that Roger Trotman type talkbox funk shit. Poppin' and Lockin'. That's why west coast rap has that signature sound. N. Cali heads weren't on that yet. Here I am 3 years old listenning to the "Breakdance" vinyl and what have you.

    So from that to going to see a concert and seeing 10's of thousands of white consumers and black artists is a disconnect still for me. Going to the most esteemed bougie black college ever in the history of mankind since the Order of Melchezideck and seeing a ton of people wanting to be gangsters and thugs was crazy to me. But we need them in order for Rap to be a billion dollar industry.

    But it's a trade off. Now, hip hop music is about pandering to posers. Speaking on real shit is all but abolished because it doesn't propel the financial movement of rap. I see a lot of these cats off camera and realize that they have no desire to be the people they are forced to portray themselves as. I wouldn't be surprised if these snap artists were hella lyrical or if Snoop was hella conscious or if some of these Gangster rappers were hella gay, but they cannot be themselves in those respects because the machine does not yet know how to market that from those very type-casted artists. Before the machine Eminem wasn't "crazy" and "bitter", Tupac was a slightly effeminine conscious rapper/son of 2 very prominent panthers, and Dre wore make-up. 50 was a heavy set very lyrical New York rapper, not a superthug. All reports make him a snitch. Now he's some sorta gangster who don't really spit on some lyrical shit.

    So that's the trade off. Yes, wankster and wigger consumerism in hip hop music puts the culture on the forefront of society's frontal lobe, but at the same time at what cost?

    Again I ask: are wanksters and wiggers and all-around posers a good thing for hip hop if their understanding of the culture is permutated by way of the media/entertainment business machine and not from a genuine "belonging" and participation within the culture itself?
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  4. Look im Gangsta

    Look im Gangsta New Member

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    Soultan is just pissy because he's a Flava Flave to a group with white mcs
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  5. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    Ratiko is still pissy for the time and time again he gets clowned by the flava flav in a group of white emcees (what group would that be, btw? jokes tend to work when there's at least a kernel of truth to 'em. Help us out here...)[dunno]
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  6. Cedric

    Cedric or otherwise Ced

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    @NisLaniF – Good post. Feel free to discuss/debate any of my key-points, I'll add-to/expand if necessary.

    You’re correct in that today’s hip-hop/rap market caters heavily towards tourists (American) to the genre. When an MC becomes an MC, they must ask themselves, “What do I want out of this venture?” Some may desire fame and exposure, some for money, some for both, and some for other complicated reasons. If an MC is true to self, it’ll show in their rhymes. The problem with this is that being true to self isn’t always a marketable strategy, so they will be forced to “make adjustments”. After some tweaking and turning, it could mean the difference between a double-wood to a double-platinum recording artist.

    There are many MCs that desire to be themselves and be successful at the same time, but are aware that the odds of this happening are almost always slim, due to an industry’s fluctuating demands. This goes back to the question, “What do I want out of this venture?” Nobility may take precedence, and they’ll come into the industry as-is, their value based on the market’s demands [in that time-pool]. If greed sets in, they’ll analyze the market’s demands before releasing, and make the necessary adjustments to get the most out of what they want in this venture. Sometimes this is a forced ordeal in their contract, and can be the requisite needed for a label to put time, money and energy into him or her.

    The SoundScan torch in hip-hop/rap is passed wherever white-America can feel guiltless. Hip-hop used to be a pure art-form, and many walks of urban life could relate to much of the MC element (including white-America). This is where SoundScan gravitated (Hip-Hop/East Coast, birth to late-‘80s). After the rise of Rap/Gangster (first Kool G. Rap and P.E., later and more exclusively N.W.A.), it quickly turned lyrical beefs into personal, and turned the genre into a more hostile environment. This is where SoundScan gravitated (Rap/West Coast/Gangster, late-‘80s to mid-‘90s). Controversy killed Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls, and SoundScan gravitated towards heavyweights elsewhere (Rap/East Coast, late-‘90s to early-2k). With a quiet marketing/media-strategy under Viacom, SoundScan was able to pass the torch to Rap/South for early-2k to present, so much that it’s become acceptable for white-America to currently deem it today’s guiltless-purchase. Keep in mind that for whatever CDs were purchased by black-America in this period, it was based upon whom they identified towards (Coast), not so much what white-America deemed guiltless. ‘Legs and ‘tapes supplemented much of their purchasing-methods as well.

    The question now stands, “Who are today’s most-active hip-hop/rap torch-carriers?” In declination, it’s Lil’ Wayne (Rap/South/Gangster), T.I. (Rap/South Trap/Gangster), Kanye West (Hip-Hop/Soul/Electro), Fabolous (Rap/East Coast), and Young Jeezy (Rap/South Trap/Gangster).

    @Kanye West and hip-hop - A fraction of hip-hop is looking at Kanye as the next hopeful (he has the best of both worlds at hand), but some hip-hop heads taking the purist stance debate that he’s polluting the genre with his additives, and needs to tone down. Most say he’s doing fine. I take the culturist stance and say he’s doing fine, his bars are heavily to moderately rugged. As long as this is preserved, production can escalate to greater heights, which increases “mood music” to evolve hip-hop’s direction, and erases the “drums-and-orations” method (toggle to my last thread, versus Ghet_for_Prez). Kanye is aware of this, and this is his aim. This can leave the temptation to increase swag “over a hunnid” into pop/dance territory, and this is a hip-hop no-no (which no MC has broken since MC Hammer, w/ P. Diddy making some close-calls).
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  7. LiveFromThe781

    LiveFromThe781 Don Of The Den

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    well there had to be something marketable in hip-hop in the first place if it "created" so many wiggers, wankstas, and the sort or the driving force behind hiphop, to paraphase you. but whos to say hip-hop wouldnt be better off without all the comercialization? i think the globilazition of hiphop would still remain, not to the extent it is now but atleast the people listening to it (domestic and worldwide) would be hiphop and not just "consumers".
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  8. Offbeat

    Offbeat New Member

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    do u know what fake is??

    just cuz u know how 2 tie a knot and act classy and act respectible at certain times doesnt negate that u might sell drugs, fight people, fuck bitches, and pop guns

    wtf

    u ARE fake

    U watch 2 much tv

    its not the other way around

    u need 2 stop it and let it go

    u are not from the hood

    stop talkin about what goes on here
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  9. RM Legend

    RM Legend New Member

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    although i don't mind ill rich,he seems pretty poserish at times.
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  10. Tequila Jong-il

    Tequila Jong-il SALAD TOSSER

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    Ive just become aware of soultan's vast catalogue of youtube video's. Fans of rambling turds with incredibly shaped heads should def check that shit out.
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  11. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    The pervasive idea is that a white poser is a "wigger", though in another thread I explain my distaste for the word. it implies a white n-word, and I'm not fond of that idea. I'd just call him and the rest of them "wack".

    "Wigger" is a phrase that THEY used in a thread about ME.

    However, lots of blacks get away with being posers because to the grand populus, they LOOK right. They're black in baggy close, so they must be "real hip hop", right? Then there's the white kid who IS real hip hop who has a hard time because he's the wrong color. Whites and blacks alike would tell him that.

    So it's a hodge podge that is an interesting source of debate. Just likely not in this forum because the alleged "wiggers" will come in here and defend themselves to no end and ruin the thread.

    again.
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  12. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Ah, it wasn't too difficult . . .
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  13. Sodium

    Sodium I Get Computers Putin'

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    everything to you is about race its pathetic. it controls you.
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  14. Offbeat

    Offbeat New Member

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    in the hood race dosent come up

    in the coffee shops and universities u and ur hip hop group chill at it comes up alot huh
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  15. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    I'll prove you wrong the same way I proved Brit Boi wrong:

    all the threads I've started for as far back as rm.com can remember.

    How many of them are about race and how many are there total? [dummy]

    You only FUCK WITH ME on these race shits. THAT'S your fucking hang up, not MINE.

    I just happen to know a lot about race issues, so you end up looking like an ass every time.

    And for the record, this is more about posers and fakers and the music industry than it ever was about race...
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  16. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    Yeah, I guess that's why I've had to stop my boys "in the hood" from shooting non-blacks who think the "n-word is cool". [dummy]

    Tell ya what, try and FIND a hood first before you speak on it.
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  17. BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum

    BlackSoultan Ad Infinitum aka Billy Shoreview

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    For some it actually was. I'm a seventeen year old brainy kid from a private school in the bahamas. Fuck do I know about american street punks? If they were able to fool each other, they for damn sure fooled me...
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  18. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    True, I was actually thinking about that the other day. So much of American culture is wrapped up in the movie and music industries. Most outsiders really don't understand a lot. I was talkin to a couple Saudi friends about America's history and the one guy said: "I like the black people in America. They are cool." I tried not to laugh because it sounded so corny, yet it was so honest and innocent the way he said it. He was like, "I don't understand them when they talk though."

    At first I didn't see how he couldn't understand Black men and women but then I realized that what's natural for me sounds like a completely different language to an outsider. I showed them youtube videos of Raggae and Marley and they never even heard of him. I was thinking, "You know who Tupac is but you don't know who Marley was?"

    I hadn't spent so many years back and forth in America and around Americans I wouldn't understand a lot of American culture. Other cultures are fairly easy to learn, they're not so fluctuating.
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  19. UnbrokeN

    UnbrokeN Well-Known Member

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    at school, soultan was bullied by the wanktas who were bullied by the real gangstaers
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  20. Offbeat

    Offbeat New Member

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    no u didnt

    u dont know anyone from any hood

    and btw i live in one

    aint that some shit huh
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