(am I up for the challenge? ummm....) yes i am (but are you... down with OPP?) look the real purpose of this thread was to target the underlying problem as presented by the empiricist stance. this is the underlying force that powers atheism. so when i destroy this i can break down all things that are built above that ultimately this is my counter to atheists. its sort of like a trap you see... let me just admit everything a maze that lures you inside and spins you around and leaves you dropped off at the receiving end of a counter-punch. we can call this the dizzy-punch i was testing to see how well it worked. it works very well. look for yourself in this thread and see how i put those who challenged me through the maze-trap and then hitting them ultimately with the dizzy punch i first insult your intelligence as a large part of atheism is based around a perception of being smarter than theists (and by extension metaphysical stances). i insult that by highlighting how atheists have never read any works or have any knowledge of metaphysical philosophy/philosophers i do this because these things are associated to intelligence. by showing that the atheist is ignorant/separated from these things i can by implication show how the atheist isnt really that smart after all. i can show that there is a progressive scale of intelligence where the atheist is only at a middling level thereby prompting him to be envious of the level directly above him the level directly above him can insult his limited and middling intelligence and hence completely stain the atheist pride. once this happens they are more open to considering other ways of thinking. that is when i really start to work. by breaking down your base drive to atheism (intellectual posturing) i can make you feel ugly and stupid and then provide for you a way to become beautiful again (an intellectual again) really this seems vicious but no its just exploiting you for your immaturity. anyway we can still go through this dance together you and i. I've already done this two or three times in this thread though so please go back and tell me specifically what part you disagree with. and i will respond back.