Truth about sacred name movement

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by lyricalpriest, Apr 22, 2012.

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  1. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    what did jesus say on the cross when he thought hed abondon him
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  2. Brown Jesus

    Brown Jesus Menso is for Dummies

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    Jesus said "I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End"

    "In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth."

    How's that for closure?
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  3. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    Well, let's get some understanding. . .

    YAHUWAH is the Almighty Creator of the heavens and the earth, and that Yeshuah the MessiYah is His Son, as it is written.

    Elohim did create the Heavens and the Earth....Yahshuah was with Him that week too.

    So why did Yahshuah say, "I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End"

    What did he really mean by this ? Was he saying he was Elohim ? Or was it deeper and tied directly and in unison (in line) with the entire message of the Gospel in which the Son came to establish as the good news for the entire world ? (we will learn at the end, but first let's get some understanding of the precious LAMB !! HalleluYAH)

    There is nothing recorded in the "New Testament" that ever quotes Yahshuah as saying He was either an equal part of a trinity with YAHUWAH. On the contrary, everything Yahshuah spoke showed He was in complete submission to His Heavenly Father YAHUWAH and to His Laws, as we all should be.

    Anyone who teaches people that they are not under YAHUWAHs laws any more are to be treated as false prophets. Deuteronomy 13:1-10. All Christianity teaches people that they are not under the YAH’s laws any more. All Christians are the foolish virgins of Matthew 25

    John 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me

    Yeshua is our living Torah, the Aleph and Tav תא

    [​IMG]

    Consider Yeshuah's own words in John 14:28, "...for my Father is greater than I."; John10:29, "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all..."; and John. 13:16, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant [Yeshuah] is not greater than his Master [YAHUWAH]; neither he that is sent [Yeshuah] greater than he that sent him [YAHUWAH]."

    ^These verses teach us Yeshuah's view of his relationship to his Father. Notice he didn't claim to be the Father but instead, made a clear distinction between the two.

    Heb.1:5; For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    Acts 3:13, The Elohim of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the Elohim of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshuah;...

    Is.42:1 teaches us that Yeshuah is YAHUWAH's servant. "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    If we do not try to force the scriptures to conform to our own doctrines, they are so simple to understand. Instead men try to support "Holy Trinities", "Incarnations", "Transubstantiations", and the like. The Bible does not use terms like "Father" and "Son" to try and trick us. They are used to express a relationship that we can relate to. If Yeshua is Father Yahuwah, the scriptures would state it in plain language. Instead, it says that Yeshua is the Son of Father Yahuwah.

    Should we refer to Yeshuah as the Almighty, a title only applied to YAHUWAH? Nowhere in scripture is this ever the case. One scripture that seemingly supports such an application is:

    Rev. 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith [the Lord]*, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    *The Greek has "kurios o theos" ("the Lord the God" or "YAHUWAH Elohim"). The phrase "Lord God" is never used of Yeshuah in the New Testament. Aside from that, John is giving a greeting starting in verse four and ending in verse seven. Verse four is a greeting from the Father "which is, and which was, and which is to come." Verse five is a greeting from Yeshuah the MessiYAH. Verse eight is spoken by the Father which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

    Scripture makes a clear distinction between the Almighty and Yeshuah in Rev.21:22; And I saw no temple therein: for Yahweh Elohim Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

    Yeshuah is not YAHUWAH Almighty.


    Yeshuah indeed is worthy of our worship and honor, but only as YAHUWAHs representative, not as YAHUWAH Himself. YAHUWAH commanded even the angels of heaven to worship Yeshuah (Heb.1:6). Rev.5:12 ,13 show both YAHUWAH and the Lamb [Yeshuah] receiving worship. Eventually, those believers comprising the Philadelphia assembly will receive worship as well (Rev. 3:9). The worship they receive however, is not directed at them as though they were YAHUWAH.
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  4. Brown Jesus

    Brown Jesus Menso is for Dummies

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    Who's saying Jesus = The Father? You have serious reading comprehension issues, Coup. By your own account, at least The Father and Son are included in the Godhead; since Elohim is clearly plural. But, in the very next breath, you say Jesus wasn't Elohim. Lets be perfectly clear, though, Jesus is an integral component, if you will, of Elohim. Elohim is a divine Triumvirate; let us create man in our image. How are we fashioned after Elohim? Existence, knowledge, and love.
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  5. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    YAHSHUAH is not the one ALMIGHTY ELOHIM. He is not the Father. He is the Son.

    That is all I am saying.

    You and payback and just about every other Christian say that Yahshuah (his name is not jesus) equals the Father.
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  6. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
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  7. Menso

    Menso Go Lakers!

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    You don't even know what you yourself have said, it's no wonder that you have no idea what we're saying. Do us a favor and go take a remediate reading course at your local CC.
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  8. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    Do me a favor, don't talk to me unless you have a question.
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  9. Menso

    Menso Go Lakers!

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    Why did you contradict yourself?
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  10. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    The word "Elohim," translated "God," is often attacked as well. It is believed that it denotes a plurality or a god consisting of more than one being or more than one manifestation of a being. This, too, is a false concept based on the philosophy of men. Elohim is used in the Bible with a plural sense when it refers to several deities and in a singular sense when it refers to a singular deity. Its plural sense can be seen in Ex.12:12, "For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods (Elohim) of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am Yahweh." Its singular sense can be seen in 1 Sam.5:7, ". . . and upon Dagon our god (Elohim)" and 2 Kgs.1:2, ". . . Go, enquire of Baal-zebub the god (Elohim) of Ekron whether I shall recover of this disease." Are we to believe that Dagon and Baal-zebub are also plural beings who can "incarnate" themselves as Yahweh "supposedly" did?
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  11. Menso

    Menso Go Lakers!

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    What about this?
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  12. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    Menso, are you interested in the the issues really ? I don't think you care one single bit, and I really don't care to take you up in that wise.

    The word "God" (Elohim) is properly applied to Yeshua in Heb.1:9 and Jn.20:28. Both words are from the Greek word "theos" which was also used in reference to Satan (2 Cor.4:4) and Herod (Acts 12:22). It has the same meaning as the Hebrew word "Elohim" and can be applied to men, angels, and the Almighty. Ps.82:6 applies it to any child of the Most High; "I have said, Ye are gods [Elohim]; and all of you are children of the most High." It simply means "a mighty one among his people." It is not wrong to call Yeshua an Elohim or a god.
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  13. Menso

    Menso Go Lakers!

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    Thomas said "...my God..." it would be very different, except for that little my. I think you're running out of real estate and don't want to play anymore tbh.
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  14. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    Nah, I want to run though the scriptures and show just exactly what is written about the Messiah and who is who and who our Father is and who he is not....John 20:28 is not saying yahshuah is Elohim...we know what the messiYAH thought he was from his own mouth. He never once said he was the one true Almighty Elohim.

    people feel they have to magnify the Savior into the position of the Almighty when, in fact, scripture makes it quite clear that the Father is greatest of all and the "head of Messiah"
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  15. Menso

    Menso Go Lakers!

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    Why did you contradict yourself?

    Why can't you admit you were wrong at least once? Is this the humility and meekness that you claim to possess?
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  16. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    wrong about what ? If im wrong sure I'll admit it. but can you show me what I'm wrong about ?

    I been wrong before (beliving the trinity, the names, and about the laws..I admitted I was wrong about that.)
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  17. Menso

    Menso Go Lakers!

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    Ok, apparently you really do need me to slow down.

    Read the first sentence of my post. [edit]Maybe this isnt clear enough; post #35[/edit]

    If you're still confused, read post #27 or #31.
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  18. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    The word "Elohim," translated "God," is often attacked as well. It is believed that it denotes a plurality or a god consisting of more than one being or more than one manifestation of a being. This, too, is a false concept based on the philosophy of men. Elohim is used in the Bible with a plural sense when it refers to several deities and in a singular sense when it refers to a singular deity. Its plural sense can be seen in Ex.12:12, "For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods (Elohim) of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am Yahweh." Its singular sense can be seen in 1 Sam.5:7, ". . . and upon Dagon our god (Elohim)" and 2 Kgs.1:2, ". . . Go, enquire of Baal-zebub the god (Elohim) of Ekron whether I shall recover of this disease." Are we to believe that Dagon and Baal-zebub are also plural beings who can "incarnate" themselves as Yahweh "supposedly" did?

    Yah, I was wrong about the context we were discussing it in before....I will admit that.

    I understand it to also mean in plurality when you speak about the Father and His Son.

    The word "God" (Elohim) is properly applied to Yeshua in Heb.1:9 and Jn.20:28. Both words are from the Greek word "theos" which was also used in reference to Satan (2 Cor.4:4) and Herod (Acts 12:22). It has the same meaning as the Hebrew word "Elohim" and can be applied to men, angels, and the Almighty. Ps.82:6 applies it to any child of the Most High; "I have said, Ye are gods [Elohim]; and all of you are children of the most High." It simply means "a mighty one among his people." It is not wrong to call Yeshua an Elohim or a god.

    Yeah, I was wrong. I have a better understanding about the word now after having been talking about it.


    Elohim is still a correct term. And when Thomas said it, we also gain a deeper understanding of what he meant.

    Do you see that also ?
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  19. Menso

    Menso Go Lakers!

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    No, I don't. It may be the case in other parts of the Bible, but, whatever Greek word Thomas chose to use is beside the point. The statement is clearly a statement about the divinity of Christ; furthermore, it is a statement that Christ is HIS God. How can a Jewish man say these things?
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  20. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    We can keep this in one thread. Let's use the other ...to keep things smooth...
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