Thrilla

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Yahunyahti, Mar 15, 2007.

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  1. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    This thread is being directed to you but is open to all Muslims who are well read.

    I am having trouble understanding a few mainstream Muslim beliefs.

    I have heard Muslims state that they believe in the Prophets. I have also heard many Muslims say that the Books (Torah and Injeel) have been changed. I have seen the verse in the Quran in which it states that the message has been altered by the Christians and Jews but I cannot find a single place where it says that the books have been changed. A false teacher can alter a message without changing the book itself. In fact, the Bibles of today are the Bibles that were available during Mohammed's time. The message has not been changed. The translations may vary, but so do translations of the Quran, depending on which you read.

    The point is, Mohammed did not teach the same message as Yeshua. Yeshua did not teach the same message as Moses. Mohammed taught the same message as Moses. Moses was an Egyptian Pharaoh named ThutMOSIS. Yeshua taught the same message as Lao Tzu (Taoism), Guatama (Buddha), and the character Krishna (Vishnu). Muslims use the name Jesus (Isa) to convert Christians and they (in a manipulative way) call it "Reverting" as though these people were ever practicing the "religion" of Islam. But Mohammed did not teach the same message as Yeshua. The Message is clearly not the same. It isn't a hidden truth, it's obvious. I will provide examples below of why I say this:

    "So whatever you wish that men would do for you, do so for them; for this is the law and the prophets." - Yeshua (Isa)

    "None of you will have faith until he likes for his MUSLIM brother what he likes for himself." - Quran

    Yeshua (Isa) said to "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of the Most High."

    Mohammed said to love your Muslim brothers.

    Yeshua said, "How easy is it to love those who love you? Do not even devils show love for other devils?"

    -----

    "And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town." - Yeshua (Matthew 10:14)

    "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." Bukhari, vol. 9, book 88, no. 6922

    Yeshua says, "If they don't listen to you, then leave them in their sin and confusion."

    Mohammed says, "If they stop listening to you, kill them."
    -----

    "Love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High; for he is kind to the ungrateful as well as the selfish." - Yeshua (Luke 6:35)

    "Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them." - Quran 3:28

    Now this brings up a question . . . if believers are not to mix with non-believers and make friends with them, then how did Mohammed gain so many followers? They were non-believers (in his belief) before they converted. That required him being friends with them. Unless of course it was by force or fear that he coerced them to convert. Then it wouldn't require friendship.

    However, this Quranic verse contradicts the life of Yeshua (Isa). Isa said, "I have not come for the saints. I have come for the sinners. The righteous do not need the message, the sinners do."

    What is that Message? It is Inner Peace and bringing Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) out of you. It is like turning on a light within you that will shine forth from you, so bright, that all the darkness all around (the sinner) will become light and they will cease to stumble on their path.

    The fact is the Quran rarely speaks of the Holy Spirit. The Quran rarely speaks of Inner Peace. The Quran never speaks of Compassion and Love for your enemy. Not once. Buddha, Lao Tzu AND Yeshua taught Peace, Love and Compassion. Mohammed teaches people to worship his abstract view of God by facing a concrete (formed) building in his Capital City.

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  2. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    "Do not be of this world." - Yeshua

    "My kingship is not of this world; if my kingship were of this world, my servants would fight." - Yeshua (Clearly against fighting) [John 18:36]

    "I have been ordered by Allah to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Mohammed is the Messenger of Allah." (All Muslims who have gone to Islamic schools learn this quote)

    Yeshua (Isa) refused to fight because war NEVER brings peace. Mohammed was a foolish Merchant who made a living many years of his early life selling people useless shit. Coincidence? He found something more appealing. He realized that money brought some power but by creating a religion and burrowing from Mani (Manichean Religion) he could achieve the ultimate power. He fought in battles. He has the blood of other human beings on his head. That will never be removed from him. Mohammed was not a Prophet of YHWH. Mohammed was the first AND last prophet of Allah. That is because nobody else referred to God as Allah. ALL of the Prophets called God by a different name (I will not use it on RM).The name of God is YHVH, YHWH, and YHYH. They are past, present and future tense names. YHVH means "He was what he was." YHWH means "He is what he is." YHYH means "He will be what he will be." The King Messiah will bear the name of God. His name will be God's name and because of this, no human force will be able to destroy him.

    Muslims believe that Isa (the man) will return. But Yeshua himself denied this. Yeshua was Messiah as were ALL of the others prophets. They were all anointed by God. But the King Messiah is another story. There has never been a human being who bears the name of God. There will only be one and he will be the King Messiah for he is the only one who knows that name.

    "I am going to the Father where you will see me no more." = Yeshua (Isa)

    "In a little while you will not see me. Then you will see me again. There are many things which I would like to speak to you, but you are not yet ready. When he comes, the Counselor, he will guide you into all truth. He will take from what is mine and make it known to you." - Yeshua

    Muslims love to claim (since Ahmed Deedat) that Mohammed was this Counselor. That is so stupid. The Counselor is the King Messiah and the King Messiah will be from the line of David and will bear the name of David's Lord. Mohammed was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

    "Be on your guard, for they will come to you as wolves in sheeps clothing." - Yeshua

    A wolf is a violent animal. A sheep is not. A wolf in sheep's clothing is a man who pretends to be peaceful and speaks of peace, but loves war and practices it.

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    "And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved." - Yeshua (Mark 13:13)

    "There is for you an excellent example to follow in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: 'We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: (Lie right here, Abraham wasn't an Arab, he would not use the name Allah) we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred forever, unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone." - Quran 60:4

    It cannot be more clear than this. Yeshua says, "They will hate you because of my name," and of course Mohammed verifies those who bear the name of Christ throughout the Quran. At one place they are fellow believers guaranteed their reward with God and in other places they are condemned to hell.

    -------

    "The hour is coming when whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God." - Yeshua

    We MUST take this into perspective. Yeshua was teaching the Jews. He was speaking to Jews. He was not speaking to American Middle Class White Christians. He was speaking to JEWS! YESHUA WAS A JEW!

    "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are the People of the Book [Jews and Christians], until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." - Quran 9:29

    What is that? ^ [funny]
    God's mercy is for sale? If you pay money then you can be left alone?
    These aren't believers, these are mobsters. We'll attack you until you submit to our beliefs (you can call it Allah). If you don't submit then we will fight you until you do. If you do submit and pay us money then Allah will forgive you and we will protect you, but if one day you decide you don't believe in Allah and our beliefs anymore, we will kill you and your family, unless they submit to us and betray you.

    That is NOT the Word of God.
    Anybody who believes it is, is lost.

    --------

    "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy . . . For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even tax collectors do the same? And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others?" - Yeshua (Matthew 5:7)

    What did Mohammed have to say about that? Let's see . . .

    "Mohammed is Allah's Apostle. Those who follow him are rtuhless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." - Quran 48:29



    Do I really need to continue? They did NOT teach the same message. How many of you Muslims actually read Yeshua's words independent of your Islamic conditioning? How many of you have actually read Buddha's words and Lao Tzu's words? If you do ever get around to it, you will see that Lao Tzu, Buddha and Yeshua all taught the same message. Mohammed was an inferior human being. He really did not display the thoughts and actions of an enlightened man.

    Here is a link to texts that you should read before replying. I challenge you to find one place in these books that killing a human being is allowed. I challenge you to find one place in any of these books in which man is told to face a specific direction or pray in a specific manner. Find the message in these books and then see if you can find it in the Quran. I can't.

    Here is Buddha's Message:
    http://www.ishwar.com/buddhism/holy_dhammapada/

    Here is Lao Tzu's Message:
    http://www.chinapage.com/gnl.html

    Here is Yeshua's Message: http://www.westarinstitute.org/Polebridge/Title/Complete/Thomas/thomas.html




    Pacifist Liberals unwittingly are assisting a Tyrannical Religion in gaining power over them. Muslims only pretend to be Peaceful. They may even convince their selves that their religion is peaceful (I don't see how), but they will not convince the world. The King Messiah is not coming through them and their religion will be pulled up by its roots and cast to the left with all other false religions (Christianity, Judaism, Etc). There is only one religion and it will never be governed by Men.

    It is the religion of Love and the temple is you.
    test
  3. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    Is this azeus? Anyways, I promise I will read the thread thoroughly but right now i gotta find information about some university courses. In the meantime I'll shed some light on verse 9:29

    This verse is very rich and complex (like all verses in holy books written in semitic languages)

    Now before I even start, I just want to point out that I am no islamic specialist or scholar, and I will answer these questions to the best of my knowledge and ability, at the time being (as we all know higher learning never ends).

    I would first like to point out that this verse is history, and also a prophecy (future).

    [9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

    fight back against the people of the book, If christians attack muslims, and kill them, and restrict them from practicing/professing their faith in their own lands, then muslims have the right to defend themselves and fight back. In order to stop the conquest of the opposition (christians), muslims had to defeat the christians and conquer their territory instead (in order to avoid christians from anteing-up and waging another conquest on muslims). After the muslims completed their conquest and established islamic rule over christian land, every citizen had to pay tax: zakat (4 muslims) and jizya (4 non-muslims). Jizya is the cheaper tax out of the two, and isn't binding on property.

    So fight them back until you conquer their lands (in order to stop them from conquering your land and oppressing you), and establish islamic rule in their lands. This is a way of civilizing a society as well. Christian societies never let muslims and jews practice their religion under christian rule and even kicked out anyone from their country who professed either faith, but islamic societies comfortably let christians and jews practice their religion under islamic rule Ex. muslim spain, muslim jeruselem.


    Or

    If muslims already rule(d) a land, everyone must pay their due taxes, and obey the system. So if some christian and/or jewish rebels repel(led) from paying those taxes, they have either two choices 1)get expelled from the land or 2) pay the tax.
    In the united states, people go to jail for not paying their taxes.



    Shaloam Alai'kum
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  4. cock juggler

    cock juggler Double ML=STUD

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    yet you never mentioned killing...

    fuckin muslims..scumbags
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  5. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    what do you mean "killing?"
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  6. cock juggler

    cock juggler Double ML=STUD

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    "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." Bukhari, vol. 9, book 88, no. 6922

    stop playing dumb.
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  7. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    No, Azeus was a fictional character that I created and used for a few years.
    I am done with characters. Everything that can be learned through them, has been learned. If you like, you can call me Yahti or Rex. Whichever you are more comfortable with using.


    Take your time. I will reply to you when you reply to my post in its totality. If you have to ask your Imam, I can wait. I would rather you think out your response than just recite back what other people tell you. If it takes you a month, that is fine. Just send me a PM through RM when you have responded to it and I'll reply back.

    Don't take this as an attack on you. I understand that many Muslims believe what they read in the Quran and they many are very peaceful human beings. I am friends with a few men (and my wife is friends with a few women) who are very sincere in their beliefs. I am not attacking you at all. I just want that to be clear so that this discussion does not unravel into a barrage of insults. If that occurs then I will walk away. Please ignore others who try to lure the discussion off topic or nothing will be achieved and neither of us will learn anything.



    wa `Alaykum As-Salām
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  8. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Shalom does not need the "a" by the way.
    For future use.
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  9. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    Azue, Don't even talk to this shill.

    He is not a apostate muslim. He is a wanna be Moslim. And he won't reply back with his own words, He is a paste and copy, moron. I thought I proved that by rediculing him with his own technique. He doesn't care about making a point like you or I. He cares about filling the form with as much copy and paste bullshit as he can to overload the conversation.

    He's not well read either. If he was he'd debate in a rational manner. He can't even debate! Do not even show this kid respect.

    Compare for him how Jesus of christianity teaches no violence to how Mohammad of Islam does, and he'll LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! LIE! He is not well read, Don't even treat him as such.

    it's good you're being mature with people.
    But this kid is a shill and farce not worth anyones respect.
    And the minimal speech the kid does type is all in non-sequiturs.
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  10. BeEgEe

    BeEgEe El Warm Shot

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  11. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    [​IMG]


    Getting emtional again eh? Anyways...
    Both the Qu'ran and the Torah support capital punishment (with expiations involved). The southern states of America also support it (your own country).
    And so do I.


    Just like brother Malcolm X said "self defense is intelligence"

    I mean...

    What would you do..
    if a vicious enemy suddenly started coming at you..
    armed to the teeth, and ready to kill you?

    I would certainly try to preserve my life, it's called intelligence. I would defend myself and take control of the situation (if I could).


    As for rex, I won't be consulting a Imam. However, I remember getting into a debate like this before, and basically we didn't come to term on alot of things (such as you saying the kaba was no different than an idol). I hope you know about the practices christians do in jeruselem (bending down and kissing sacred stone etc..). I will get to this later
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  12. BeEgEe

    BeEgEe El Warm Shot

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    you shill you
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  13. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    I'll do this one by one

    Concerning verse 4:34

    read this

    http://www.flwi.ugent.be/cie/bogaert/bogaert4.htm

    Now i will confirm this with hadith

    Several Hadith urge strongly against beating one's wife, such as: "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her? (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43),


    "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)".


    As for apostasy in Islam, during the time when islam was of infant size, a certain group of people conspired to tarnish the image of islam by converting to islam and then reverting back to their previous faith (on purpose). Their goal was to draw people away from Islam by converting, and then reverting (to make people think there was something wrong with the faith and draw them off).

    So the prophet Muhammad pbuh made a temporary law, making apostasy punishable by death. After he declared this law, the group stopped their antics (and no-one was put to death btw).

    This group of people to my recollection were jews, because they were losing members their own faith to islam, which meant they were losing power.

    As you know, religious texts are also historical texts as well. You must understand the historical context of a verse before you pass a judgment on it
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  14. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    You're allowed to make friends with a non-muslim in society. This isn't mid-evil times where muslims were being targeted and persecuted left and right during the rise of islam. Muslim at that time were never to ally themselves with their unbelieving foes who mocked and/or persecuted muslims.


    [3:28] The believers never ally themselves with the disbelievers, instead of the believers. Whoever does this is exiled from GOD. Exempted are those who are forced to do this to avoid persecution. GOD alerts you that you shall reverence Him alone. To GOD is the ultimate destiny.

    This verse simply means choose your friends carefully. It means don't befriend hypocrites who talk behind the backs of muslims, and insult islam. It also means never ally yourself with the enemy opposition (during the case of war). However, exempted are those who are forced to do this in order to avoid persecution. This can be confirmed in the next verse:

    [3:29] Say, "Whether you conceal your innermost thought, or declare it, GOD is fully aware thereof." He is fully aware of everything in the heavens and the earth. GOD is Omnipotent.

    This also can be confirmed in 3:18 3:19 3:20



    That's not even how the verse goes.

    48:29 Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

    I see nothing wrong with the verse
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  15. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Is that why Muslims went to Jerusalem?
    To defend themselves?

    Is that why Muslims attack Hindus in India and Zoroastrians in Iran?
    Is it really self defense when you're outside of your own country?
    The best way to defend your nation is to be in it.



    We're not talking about Christians. We're talking about Muslims. Christians have many idols, this is true. That still does not change the fact that Mohammed promoted (and ordered) the murdering of people who leave the religion of Islam.

    You are still avoiding that one. Please don't try to red herring the subject. Muslims claim (so does the Quran) that Mohammed taught the same message as Yeshua. I have shown that he didn't. So either Mohammed actually did and the Quran is not an accurate account of what Mohammed taught or Mohammed was a wolf in sheep's clothing.

    See the difference between Islam and Christianity is this:
    Yeshua did not preach war and violence (for ANY reason whatsoever).
    Mohammed did.

    We are not discussing the religions which have sprung up from those who claim to be their followers. We are discussing the messages of the Prophets. They did not teach the same Message. Yeshua taught that the Kingdom of God is within us and that we are all sons and daughters of God (in the metaphorical sense). He said, "What you do for the least of men, you have done for me. What you do not do for the least of men, you have not done for me." He also said, "When I was hungry, you did not feed me. When I was thirsty you did not give me a drink. When I was cold and naked, you did not clothe me. When I was in prison, you did not visit me. What you do not do for others, you do not do for me."

    Is this Mohammed's Message?
    Did Mohammed love the Jews and the Christians?
    No, he did not love them. He hated them.
    Yeshua ate with people who Mohammed would have killed.

    Yeshua ate with prostitutes and sinners of all types. He rejected nor condemned anybody.

    The Pharisess (Jewish Priests) brought a woman caught in adultery (having sex outside of marriage) to Yeshua and threw her at his feet and said, "This woman was caught in adultery. According to the Law of Moses she is to be stoned to death. What do you say?" They were trying to trap him. He taught peace and compassion and if he condemned her then they would say, "You are not a peaceful man after all." However, if he did not observe the Law of Moses then he was apostate." He ignored them and continued to crouch down and draw in the sand. They asked him again, "What is to be done to her? Is she to be stoned or not?"
    Yeshua stood up and said, "Whichever one of you has never sinned, he should throw the first stone." When they all left the woman lying there he looked down at her and said, "Have they not condemned you?" She said, "No my lord, they have not." He replied, "Neither do I. Go and stop sinning."

    Would Mohammed have dealt with her in this manner?

    We both know what happens to women who have sex outside of marriage in Islamic nations.

    Here, I'll simplify the questions:
    Did Mohammed and Yeshua teach the same message?
    Did Mohammed say that people who leave Islam are to be killed?
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  16. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    Islam also supports eliminating oppression as well as self-defence. Caliphate Umar took jeruselem from Christian rule. The Christians oppressed the people, and killed non-christians (jews). They also didn't let muslims or jews inside Jeruselem [a place holy to both groups in worship], it was strictly Christian. When Jerusalem went under muslim rule, Caliphate Umar allowed the Jews back into the city after 400 years of being restricted to enter it by the Christians. He also gave the jews freedom to live and worship. Muslims allowed Christians and jews to live with no oppression, and to practice their faiths freely.
    Under the early centuries of Muslim rule, such as the Umayyad and the Abbasid dynasties, the city prospered. Even geographer Ibn Hawqal and al Istakhri described it as "the most fertile province of Palestine"

    First and foremost, the rightly guided caliphs never invaded india, so the actions of others don't define islam (such as the moghuls)

    Islam was not introduced to india by the sword, and the moghul invasion of india has way too many myths, which cannot be answered, it's just way too grey.
    Just to learn you that Islam was not introduced by the sword in India, here's what I cited from Wiki

    Contrary to popular belief, Islam came to South Asia long before Muslim invasions of India. Islamic influence first came to be felt in the early 7th century with the advent of Arab traders. Trade relations between Arabia and the subcontinent are very ancient. Arab traders used to visit the Malabar region, which was a link between them and ports of South East Asia, to trade even before Islam had been established in Arabia. The Arab merchants and traders became the carriers of the new religion and they propagated it wherever they went.

    The first Indian mosque was built in 629 A.D, at the behest of Cheraman Perumal, during the life time of Muhammad(c. 571 – 632)in Kodungallur by Malik Bin Deenar.

    In Malabar the Mappilas may be the first community to come to the fold of Islam because they were more closely connected with the Arabs than others. Intensive missionary activities went on the coast and a number of natives also embraced Islam. These new converts were now added to the Mappila community. Thus among the Mapilas, we find, both the descendants of the Arabs through local women and the converts from among the local people


    And if you doubt this mans book, here's proof of how revered it is
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_India_as_told_by_its_own_Historians
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  17. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    As for persia, the Zoroastrians priests were oppressing their own people, while the priests were filthy rich, the people were deprived and very poor. The priests made the general masses pay large amounts just for worship, and they forced them to keep an open flame lit all day and all night (since they worshipped fire).
    The people desired desperately for a better rule, and here's where islam steps in.

    "Thus the Zoroastrian faith was the court religion. The priests tried their utmost to keep the deprived and afflicted masses quiet and to create an atmosphere in which the people should not feel their adversities.

    The oppression by the priests and their unlimited powers were driving the people away from the Zoroastrian faith and the common man was desirous of finding for himself a religion other than that of the aristocracy."

    http://www.al-islam.org/message/4.htm


    On top of that the Sassinid's (iranian empire) attacked the arabs when they were merely attempting to bring together their own rule over the fringes of the deserts and lakhmid arabs (hijra). The arabs wanted to consolidate their rule of arabia, and the dispute happened when the arabs took the border-town of hijra (an arab town). The town was a toss-up between arab or persian rule, since it was on the border. The arabs consolidated hijra as a part of their territory, and the persians "countered" with an attack on the arabs, thus creating a war between the two ethnic groups. So the arabs never invaded persia, but the persians empire waged an all out war on the arabs, unquestionably.


    The arabs felt they needed to defeat the persians and conquer perisa for two reasons

    1)The persian king could again become a threat if he were left undisturbed while raising more troops. 2)To free the oppressed people of persia from the corrupted priests who drained the people for all they had.

    The arab general khalid bin walid and caliphat Umar knew about how the zoroastrian priests were oppressing their own people, but didn't want to wage an invasion of persia just then, because they had to administer rule over other territories first, and then return when they felt they were ready.




    Muhammad pbuh did not say leaving islam, in general, was punished by death. Remember what I told you?

    People were converting and reverting to islam even during the time of the prophet. He never called for them to be executed, he only made that law temporarily to keep that same mischievous group of people away from Islam.

    Even if you were a theologian you still wouldn't know the truth. Muslims claim jesus pbuh never made a new covenant with god (in the bible) and that he never said he was a god in a trinity, you get my point? Both doctrines have different depictions, and different accounts of jesus. So this question or accusation is not applicable.


    I was watching a program the other day where a Ethiopian catholic priest was stating self-defense was supported in christianity. And the bible mentions many wars that were justifiable. Didn't David pbuh get into wars? Anyways, jesus is the focal figure of christianity anyways, and in no way is islam stating it teaches the same corner-stone message christianity teaches. It states that all the prophets had the same message, and our events and depictions of prophets differ from one another, so this comparison is irrelevant and also not applicable. You're focusing on your own personal agenda and views of jesus, and even excluding christianity out of the argument too, this is just getting loquacious of you, drop it.

    Yet those quotes are found in the religious text of christianity, so how aren't we discussing the religion which sprung from jesus christ? You can't leave christianity out of this and impose your own peronal views and your own hypothesis, because i don't believe in it.
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  18. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,870
    He never hated jews or christians, he referred to them as the people of the book/scripture. You don't understand the qu'ran or the historical contexts of the verses of which your maliciously attack.

    Minimum Requirements For Salvation

    [5:69] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

    Read about the hadiths concerning the prostitute. A prostitute went to heaven for her piety and judgement, and a rich selfish woman went to hell. I can't dig for the hadith now. BTW your version of yeshua, was he a prophet or god? did he die for your sins or what? Don't you think the bible was currupted?




    We both have different views of how the man was like. I believe in the muslims version, you believe in the christian one. That's what I'm trying to show you, in lament terms

    Actually, Turkey, Tunasia, and Lebanon made polygamy illegal [their interpretation of islam find polygamy unnecessary in this day and age] and they also don't stone women to death who commit adultery, or send them to jail either [All muslim countries don't actually, to my best recollection].

    Sharia is an ancient law back in the "flintstone" era. Now, we have better technological advances (such as forensics), but before these advances the only way they could prosecute a rapist [for example] was to summon any possible witnesses who could confirm what happened. You know, many laws within the sharia have been abolished (such as slavery), just like the mosaic laws in Christianity. It's only the backward wahhabi's who strictly adhere to sharia law, not the well-informed, properly guided muslims. Islam adapts to culture, modern muslims know this, and it's only the wahhabi's who think backwards like this [who think they're "riving" and "restoring" islam back to its original "pure" state]

    For more info on the verdict of rape and adultery (in detail) in islamic sharia

    Punishment for rape: http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=388

    Punishment for adultery: http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=article&aid=101

    Under sharia, both adultery and rape can be punishable by death or 100 lashes (depending on the circumstances surrounding the case).


    Sharia is similar to the judeo-chrsitan mosaic laws. Some Christians get out of hand too

    Bible Requires Death By Stoning For "Rebellious" Teenagers, Says PA Preacher

    http://www.commondreams.org/pressreleases/feb99/021899d.htm
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  19. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    16,807
    Yes they support capital punishment for Murders. But the murderers are given due process. However, Islam allows capital punishment if you're even gay. Not to mention, murderers in islam nations under sharia law are not given due process. See the difference dummy? Again, You make a argument which had nothing to do with what I said. And I do not support captial punishment in anyway shape or form. Worthless red herring, You couldn't point out anywhere jesus in the new testament preached violence could you... NOPE!



    Unfortantly you have no intelligence you have lies or truthfulness.
    And allegedly the nation of islam murdered malcom x. Noone is trying to kill you. You are not on the defense, Because you started this argument not me or anyone else. Don't shoot your mouth off if you can't handle the rebuttle. If you start something, I'm going to point out the truth.

    He's right rex, He won't be consulting an Imam, He'll be consulting shill scholars over google Which he will then copy and paste a reply to you with no points or reason which you will ignore. If a christian kisses a stone or idol they are pagans not christians. I'm agnostic and I know this. However, in Islam the religion states they gather together and pray around a rock, Kaaba.

    What a dumb conversation, People praying to rocks not praying to rocks.
    None of that matters.

    The Dictator Ideology of the islamic religion matters.
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  20. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,870
    Actually, I wrote "with expiations" but a retarded person like yourself wouldn't even know the meaning of the word. Muslims don't believe in the christian jesus anyways, we believe in justice for criminals, not "forgiving" them.




    I don't know what your on about, your mentally challenged.


    If you seen my replies in this thread, they were all typed out, I didn't copy and paste a scholars reply to someone else on the internet. Your just a cry baby menaz, who gets over-emotional every time someone refutes your whacked out claims. If the kabaa was really an idol that we worshiped, then how come bilal stepped on top of it, and did the adhan? Since when can an idoler step on his/her statue? That would be considered disrespect in hindusim, because they treat the idol very well (wash it, rub oil on it etc..). The kabaa has no worshiping purposes, muslims just pray in the same direction to symbolize unity. It's about the direction of prayer, not the kabaa, just ask any muslim. Hindu's use idols to concentrate, and to meditate on, but we do neither.

    Now cry me a river menaz, and again, start yakking about total nonsense.
    test
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