those who believe in science as their god ...

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by Nu'maaN, Jul 5, 2011.

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  1. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    might sound cliche'd the fuck out, but seeing is not always believing.

    sometimes believing is seeing.

    prrreach.

    :numaan:
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  2. LyricalSheikh

    LyricalSheikh New Member

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    asum'alakum my brotha!
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  3. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Malakam asulam
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  4. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    you're a fucking clown priest.

    change your avatar.

    :numaan:
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  5. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Lol is that lp..looolll
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  6. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

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    Gonna bomb him?
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  7. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    sarcasm is misunderstood over the internet.

    i will forgive you this time.

    :numaan:
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  8. Look im Gangsta

    Look im Gangsta New Member

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    Because "God did it" just isn't enough.

    When they are confronted with something that they don't understand, religious people concede defeat and oh so humbly attribute all that they don't understand, all that is beyond their cognitive capabilities to God.

    Can we please stop pretending you want to understand the 'other side'? This thread might look like you're curious as to how "science" works, but you're merely just trying to liken the two sides which shows a complete misunderstanding of science itself/


    Stop looking for a short cut or compromise. There isn't one.
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  9. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

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    So then NEXT time you're gonna bomb him/me?
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  10. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    humility is not a bad thing.

    in my questioning, i stated "correct me if i'm wrong".

    and in some answers i've read, i've found that i was wrong on some points.

    i wasn't curious as to how science works, i was curious to see how the minds of those believing science to be the truth, work.

    stop looking for reasons to lash out at anyone believing in a higher deity.

    fuck yeah.

    :numaan:
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  11. Look im Gangsta

    Look im Gangsta New Member

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    There is when it's used to excuse laziness and intellectual dishonesty and accuse those who don't 'submit' of being arrogant.


    The phrasing of 90% of your questions for the past year have given the strong impression you're looking for a commonality to excuse religions short comings. It's basically the most drawn out, polite "science is a religion" argument in history.

    If I'm lashing out then so are you. In fact, can we just drop the whole "atheists violently hating religion" crap all together.
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  12. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    either that, or your reception of my questions is twisted.

    my main aim was to learn about the vast range of belief systems.

    i took a couple years off just to learn about different religions, except atheism.

    why? it never appealed to me, i can't say "even if i wasn't born into a muslim home, i'd believe in a god". no chance of saying that, i wouldn't know, things would be a lot different.

    but those years that i took off made me question alot of things (especially in islam), and the only answer i was happy with in the end was that there is only one god, in control of all things big and small.

    you call it a coping mechanism, i call it my deen.

    if anyone can refer me to some text that gives comprehensive evidence that there is no god, and it all started with a big bang, and everything that's happening in this earth and the solar systems is all by some sort of natural patterns - then do so.

    but until then?

    :numaan:
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  13. Look im Gangsta

    Look im Gangsta New Member

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    Oh fuck off looking for comprehensive evidence. You'll settle for ZERO evidence in favour of their being a God but you need comprehensive, conclusive evidence to denounce him?

    And this just typifies my point about you not actually being sceptical. Though now you've decided your not interested in atheism (in a thread aimed at atheists) so I no longer know where you stand. Either way, this isn't religion - find it yourself. If you are genuinely interested, you don't go round telling atheists to explain why there are still monkeys, asking for evidence for a Big Bang, asking why Einsten, a scientist no less was religious etc... If you're genuinely interested, you go out and read up and then you bring back questions on shit that grab your attention or you don't understand.


    The rest of it just sounded like confused justification. I don't care if you're religious. I don't have a problem with it, I just don't fucking care how you justify it.

    And re-reading through this thread I realised I didn't mention that obvious that no one sees science as their God. You're talking about scepticism, common sense and critical thinking.
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  14. DethStryque

    DethStryque DethStryque theInvincible

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    Science and the concept of god...no actual conflict

    I find this discussion to be interesting,with many valid points being raised...but I also see a traditional conflict that actually does NOT exist within the realms of "science" itself,but more along the lines of European historical and cultural developments.

    First of all,science predates the Greeks and every civilization outside of Egypt and Ethiopia (actually Ptahmerrian and Ptah-Seti). The pyramids predate many of the very civilizations (like many Greek cities) that are given credit for advances made by the Black Africans of Ptah-Seti and Ptahmerrian.The comments regarding what would become The Scientific Method having it's roots elsewhere are more than questionable, they are bankrupt;because among many many advances made solely by our human race's African ancestors including the achievement of the sidereal calendar,the pyramids,obelisks,and the colossal scale of structures,the complexity of religion and its synergistic link with all human endeavors in ancient Africa would not be possible without the primary and first aspects of the Scientific Method which are in essence:

    Observation

    Hypothesis

    Experimentation

    Conclusion



    Secondly,there is no actual conflict between the concepts of universal evolution and a Creator...the conflict lies within the specific and largely inflexible details of various scriptures of the main religious orders on Earth at this time. The Theory of Evolution does NOT start with the popular BIG BANG THEORY. The Big Bang Theory deals largely with how the nascent universe hypothetically expanded from a ultraheated ultradense mass outward. Big Bang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Instead,modern scientists--like their African predecessors did some 5-6000 years prior--asked from whence did matter come. They asked:"Well,if we had a BIG BANG...what was the thing that exploded and made THE BIG BANG? AND WHO MADE THE THING THAT exploded and BANGED in the first place? AND WHO MADE THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE THING THAT EXPLODED IN THE BIG BANG..." in other words,scientists began to seriously explore the nature of Time and Space by asking the perpetual question of "what came before?" Eventually scientists decided that okay...SOMETHING started Time,Space,Matter,Energy,and every necessity for the universe and multiverse (even though we don't know what those necessities are). They dubbed this concept THE FIRST CAUSE. This "FIRST CAUSE" is exactly synonomous with GOD in its primary essential: it is the Author of All Things.It's beyond our capacity to remotely conceive of in a functional way.It's beyond our petty ideas of Good and Evil,Infinite and Finite,Ultimate Power,Perfection,Death,etc. Our--meaning every human being on this planet--Black African ancestors dubbed this concept PTAH,and frocked it with the requisite weight and pomp and circumstance of their culture and time.

    The immediate questions that many scientists ask would then be:"Where does the Creator come from?" That's a perfectly logical question,but it's based upon both the limitations of our knowledge and the inferences that we have reached through our observation of the universe. There is no reason to suppose that causality predates The Creator because The Creator is also the The Creator of Causality. None of the rules and regs that apply to us or anything Created in any way apply to the Creator. That would be akin to trying to correlate from the limits placed in the form of a rap verse to limitations within the rapper that created the verse. That would be like because TUPAC wrote ME AGAINST THE WORLD then he couldn't play basketball,as writing a rap is wholly different from playing basketball.That idea is of course absurd. So is the idea that The Creator is in any way limited by the limitations that The Creator foisted upon the created.

    The problem for science about plumbing the depths of an entity that is infinitely beyond Infinity (it created Infinity and Eternity anyway,if these things exist.Hell it created existence and nonexistence too) and hopelessly beyond the grasp of our mortal minds in our current stage of evolution becomes profound in that we admit that our most tantalizing questions will never be answered is anaswered by what in essence is a practical consideration: empirical improvement of our lives. This same question torques numerous religions--especially the classical versions of all of Earth's most popular "revealed religions" with the exception of Buddhism--into knots too,but religion doesn't have that earthy practical root to fall back on to justify its aims in a more tangible manner on a daily basis. All the concepts of Good,Evil,Love,Sin,etc. are squarely revealed as human fabrications and not at all a requisite of God. In fact,what we have here is proof that the various doctrines of Sin,Love,proselytizing,etc. are merely human attempts to gain dominance over other humans for human reasons and not a honest pursuit of spiritual development refinement and elevation. The ultimate spiritual quest would be to "Walk by Faith and not Sight" when we know that the furthest reaches of our minds and spirits are infinitely short of our goal,yet we believe that some essence of ours will allow us to return to/become harmonious with The Creator anyway...and we will live our lives as best as we can not only for the earthy practical reason that it's best for us while in this plane of existence wherever we reside,but the passage of existence in and of itself preps primes and refines our spiritual selves for whatever spiritual rigors that we may endure as we synchronize our Selves with the essence of existence itself.This quest is much muuuch more involved and both less and tremendously more demanding than most religions' clearly contradictory dogma. This approach would unveil completely new spiritual mental and even physical vistas to explore,as the motivation and resultant psycho-spiritual orientation would be radically different.
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  15. NightmareEx

    NightmareEx The Beast

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    So from what I gather, you chose religion through weakness, because a world view without a solitary deity watching over you is too hard to accept. That's not a good reason to belief something is real, especially when there is no proof it's real in the first place. Sadly, your reasoning is common. People just can't deal with living in a world where they are not important (reality). Delusions of grandeur permeate throughout humanity, and I'm not really sure why it's in us, but it has inevitably and invariably been humans downfall over the ages.

    Be a man, and look at the world without a god in the equation, and you'll be shocked at how much more sense the world makes.
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  16. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    fuck off, be a man? lolllllll.

    i have looked at the world without god in the equation and it didn't make a fucking tad bit of sense to me, so what's the point?

    your logic is flawed. so every religious person ends up believing in what they believe in because they don't feel important? lol, alright man.

    you can't convince me that there's no god, no matter what you say.

    so just stop.

    so where's the fucking evidence?

    what zero evidence? the proof of my god existing is everywhere in nature.

    don't get all worked up because i got a purpose in this life and world, beyond that of the average man looking for temporary highs, and excuses/reasoning to do anything that THEY wish. nafsi nafsi, it's the selfish nature of man.

    do you, because i can't.

    edit ; check your rep, mate.

    :numaan:
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  17. UnbrokeN

    UnbrokeN Well-Known Member

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    Nu is on the right track in many ways..

    i have said it time and time again, but the word god is very dangerous.

    the moment you name it, you limit it and it becomes personalized or objectified.

    evolution is a device of the divine force (god if you will) to constantly try to arrange improved or adapted (to the given environment) conditions for beings in the physical form.



    that is an ongoing process and it will never ever stop. so evolution is imperfect by nature, there is no other way. it (creation itself)cant be perfect..because it never stops.

    imagine if god created everything on the 6th day but it wasnt able to adapt to changing conditions, that would be a lot more flawed system.

    so Evolution and the Divine do go together perfectly, hand in hand.

    GOd is not an egoic entity like most people are, so they look for an egoic entity but fail to realize god around them, everywhere and egoless, ever silent, yet fully awake and aware. once people leave this dreamworld, this illusion, answers will come..
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  18. Look im Gangsta

    Look im Gangsta New Member

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    I was going to sarcastically say that there's evidence supporting the Big Bang theory 'everywhere in nature' but there actually is.

    You're arguing that other people who 'lack' faith can't be as satisfied as you - but it's the Atheists that are arrogant.

    I'm not mad. I literally don't value your belief in an after life. I'm not saying that to put you down or belittle your faith, but I'm trying to make you understand that the idea that this life is a test for the next doesn't register with me. So with that in mind how the fuck can I be mad, envious?

    But that wont hit home will it? Because you still aren't genuinely open to entertain how people could possibly live happily with out faith.

    I read your read, I'll reply tomorrow.
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  19. Nu'maaN

    Nu'maaN Anu'naki, Nuqqa.

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    pretty sure the constant expansion of the universe is mentioned in the qur'an.

    doesn't that fit in with the bb theory? started off with nothing, still expanding?

    no, i'm not.

    i'm saying that just as you need to know that there is NO god in order to live your life to the fullest, i need to know something will come about after death so i know that i'm not living this life without reason.

    only then can i feel content about living life, if i know my purpose. but having said that, in no way am i claiming that you have no purpose or reason, i just have different purpose for the same reasoning. to be content. happy. stable.

    if anything, people without religion tend to have the most fun.

    i've seen it, so no way do i think that people without faith can't live happy.

    all hood about the reference though, i started fasting yesterday so i tend to read alot during this month so i might aswell try to understand your perspective.

    :numaan:
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  20. snowy

    snowy 39k Rap Song Music Folder

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    Its your book feel free to quote it for us
    Well it fits more into the thought "we think therefore we are" from how im reading it. If you want to parallel it with BB Theory then the WE created it would contradict it.
    The reason is what you accomplish in this life. Would raising your children and falling in love have no meaning if there wasn't a giant spaghetti monster in the sky? And I see a difference between yearning to know what happens after this, and taking anything for an answer as long as it brings comfort. Unless you're going by TheBigPayback's recordings of experiences with deaths then everything is in question as no one living has anything credible to add.
    Again it just seems wierd to me. That without this book you wouldnt know to be content or happy or stable. It seems like something your loved ones could have told/taught you without needing a book in the first place.
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