The Thread Brit SHOULD have started

Discussion in 'Writer's Block' started by Surreal The A.D. Prophet, May 16, 2004.

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  1. Zeta

    Zeta New Member

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    LMFAO@ this, Anaphora there is a reason you are soooo insensitive and unfeeling it's called mental illness, I gurantee you have one. I'm no doctor tho but it's sick to be unfeeling. That's why You wrote that one poem (you called it that) And I told you it's prose, because poetry is succint... pithy. Your stuff says one thing in about 5000 words. You have no talent therefore I don't expect you to reply with enthusiasm to much of anything unless it gives you a chance to talk about yourself you arrogant fool. Personally I don't value your opinion... much
    And I'm out
    test
  2. Surreal The A.D. Prophet

    Surreal The A.D. Prophet Wondrous Poetic

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    *raises hand*

    "Whats a nubian?"


    but a little more seriously, 2 different discourses. stop.

    We don't speak the same language, we associate completely different definitions to words.

    what is a feeling? is it divorced from logic? reason? thought?

    i don't even care what your answers are, in fact i want this thread to die. it has devolved into entertainment for me. i am right next to mind~soul with some oatmeal chunk ice cream.


    Whaen i was little, batman was in my pants.
    test
  3. Surreal The A.D. Prophet

    Surreal The A.D. Prophet Wondrous Poetic

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    Couldn't help myself.

    This notion of writing for yourself is funny; any act you choose to do should first and foremost be for yourself. It's simply the nature of doing. In writing a poem, you have officially "written for yourself" now, do you want to get better? Closer to your ideal?

    If you have no ideal, that is different. I will only say that I would doubt your motives and integrity.

    I have always written for myself, and the situation you speak of, in which the writer kills their own voice at the request of audience is a bad thing. But the only way to avoid that is to have an ideal. To seek an ideal in every poem you write. When confronted with a statement you strongly disagree with, the only thing you have to use against it is what YOU want. Not the fact that they are your feelings. but the fact that you have chosen to catalogue them, give you the right to decide in what manner they are catalogued, but not to default on the quality of their transcription.

    A poem is a poem. The fact that we disagree about what good poetry is establishes that a standard is needed. But a standard exists. Many do. Defaulting on a standard is atrocious, but is just that; defaulting. There is no argument when using a standard while debating with someone who doesn’t. None. This has been proven time and time again.

    And because I distrust you to answer my question I will.
    Feelings are thoughts preceding concepts. Feelings are reactions of fundamental character.

    Anger is when something has gone against your being, your philosophical core, and you can't do anything about it. Sadness is when you don't know what to do about it

    But feelings DO have a proper wording, as hard as any concept to properly represent. Take your notion that every poem is supremely personal to its logical end; every person’s feelings are so sublimely different that when properly transcribed, the experience would be infinitely unique. It would in no way inspire me to compare it with another. And the fact that I wouldn’t compare it with another is not because I hold it in a special esteem, but because in being, it is purely itself whole and of its own terms.

    The CONTENT is whole, because the FRAMING (words) are whole. It is incomparable in overall experience, but it is comparable in form. And in fact MUST be compared in order to establish itself as unique and valid by itself. What is used to establish it as unique is the deviation or use OF the standard. Yes poems will be created which transcend standard. But that will be in relation to the standard. That is why the standard exists.

    There is no degradation of experience in saying "it would be more effective to lose these words." it is paying homage to the fact that I think that the experience would be better represented with different words. It is then up to the writer to decide. Choice is something that your statements underappreciated.

    I EXPECT a writer to disagree with many of my statements. The point of the statement isn’t always to get my suggestion used. The thought put into "no, I will not do that" or "i see, i agree" IS what I strive for. If I say a poem is bad, and explain why I see it as bad, all I ask you to consider is my argument. If you disagree, fine.

    Just as you say a poem is a poem, criticism is criticism. I am speaking from my experience. you say I disrespect the writer by suggesting harsh cuts; I say you disrespect the reader AND writer by first suggesting that I as a reader do not make suggestions or evaluate passages, and then suggesting that the writer can not make a judgment for themselves as to whether or not I am right.

    If they can’t, that is a different problem that I, as a reader, will not take into consideration. A standard is just that, it can be altered but exception for exceptions sake can not be.

    And I strongly disagree with you xero. How the writer first commits it to paper is rarely ever exactly as intended.

    If you want proof, ask someone to explain exactly what they feel is being said in each stanza of a piece. You say everyone should take something different from a piece, but to what degree?

    If I am committing an exact thought to language, I want an exact thought to come out. YES it will have implications and different levels of resonance for different people, but I want the core to be so present in the poem that it will be present in each readers mind.

    if you don’t care at all what is taken from your pieces I will stop replying to them as it is a waste of my time in the sense that you don’t need to know how I resounded at all. I am not saying this as some ultimatum; I am saying this because it is truth. To say "I will take that into consideration next time" is to say, perhaps there is a better way. And I believe that you (xero, zeta, Brit) have all said that and meant it.

    Do you not read certain poets in abundance because you feel they capture feeling and notion more aptly than others? Do you not look to their pieces as a reference? Even if you will not readily acknowledge the fact, I know it to be true. Such is the nature of doing.

    I did not intend to write this much. Do not respond unless you truly have some insight into what I just typed. I know where I am. I am fine with that, and while I prefer discourse, it’s not useful here.
    test
  4. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    Are you in every single individual's head that writes something? Do you know for a fact and precise judgment that a persons initial reaction to things is not the intended? If so, then you need to take your seat next to the Pope or some other human praised intety. I never said that the end product is exactly as intended. I said that even mistakes have purpose. In saying that it means that even though you make a mistake, it can lead you to leaving it there, or taking it out, or stopping you from writing. All things are done with purpose and intent somewhere in the mind, so the idea that a mistake, or even the intent on writing what's there has purpose is what I wrote about. Besides, you don't have to agree with me, that's what makes this life. If you agreed with me, I'm damn sure we could find something in the same subject matter to disagree with. Total submission to another persons ideas and theory's is not often looked upon as strength or intelegence, so I look forward to people disagreeing. It's the course of life and nature for things to ballence themselves. Anaphora is going to continue to say and see things the way he does because that's the way he is. He strives to be better, to see others be better, to see others excell even if he has to point out what he believes is right and wrong about what they have done. Surreal, as far as your description on feelings, you did it justice, explaining the mental and logical sides it pertains to when it comes to writing and even it's vastness. But Anaphora's looking at it as why does the writer not put it this way? It would seem more efficient if so, and why not? He want's to be heard it seems. But then again, even a child with no voice want's to be heard so I don't hold him at bay for that. Anyway, as you did not intend to write this much, neither did I...
    test
  5. Surreal The A.D. Prophet

    Surreal The A.D. Prophet Wondrous Poetic

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    "when the creator writes it that is how it is intended, even the mistakes are written with purpose" -Xero

    While you DID say mistakes have purpose, your grounds for that argument within the statment are that "when the creator writes it that is how it is intended."

    if you did not mean exactly what was written, fine. but that is what is there.

    and what you describe is what i am talking about. YES the mistake is there, and YES they were going for something. and a suggestion may or may not lead them to where the mistake is headed. but even if it doesnt, they'll know that thy have considered the suggestion and that it is not their aim.

    i think ana simply tried to be more direct. hard because until we are speaking on the same teerms, there is no directness.
    test
  6. Surreal The A.D. Prophet

    Surreal The A.D. Prophet Wondrous Poetic

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    and who asked for total submission of ideas?

    that is what i mean when i say we are speaking two different dialects.
    test
  7. Xero Satsujin

    Xero Satsujin OnLy gOd kNoWs oR Goes

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    ::loads gun::

    ::pulls trigger::

    This horse is dead...::shaking head in disappointment::
    test
  8. Surreal The A.D. Prophet

    Surreal The A.D. Prophet Wondrous Poetic

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    You killed buttercup!!!!!
    test
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