This is Brits Post Quote: Originally Posted by Surreal The A.D. Prophet at the risk of hijacking zeta's thread i will say this. As opposed to asking why everyone else's standard shouldn't be MY standard, why shouldn;t my standard be everyone else's standard? but a more potent question is why do we need a standard? while you are of the mentality to say "but exactly, why do we NEED a standard ?" but i challenge you work work towards an ACTUAL answer. and perhaps, you will understand why i can say that I should walk away with something.? The only problem I have is with arrogance and lack of modisty towards such a personal pattern of events being someone elses poetry. Why feel the need to thrust expectations or expect a standard that does not really exist? Poetry to me is not about going to workshops to reach a level which will make you more marketable, or being better, or being shy of showing all of that which I am. It is not about the embarrasment caused by another poet trying to look down in examination of my work, by taking parts of it away from what he cannot quite grasp by saying ' you are saying nothing' I do not concern myself with such people. They are the ones overly concerned with criticisms which are basically clever quibblings in which today one view wins, tommorow the opposite. Your views do interest me though, as you seem focused on your journey of finding yourself in poetry, and I admire that, truly. Quote: Originally Posted by Surreal The A.D. Prophet i do expect of others what i expect of myself, and why would you take issue with it if you expect something specific of yourself? i would like you to note the implications of my stating that, if i didnt take her view as mine, i would like to know what her view is.? You have the right to expect from others what you expect makes a poem more coherent to you, ofcourse, but I would not be so confident in my own arrogance to suggest such a thing. Quote: Originally Posted by Surreal The A.D. Prophet that is to say, a piece should stand on its own. strongly enough to present itse;f and what it represents, it's author's consiousness, in the absence of what it represents. and before you claim that this may go against her purpose in writing the poem, consider the poem's purpose. evaluate it for yourslef. LOOK at the poem and tell me what it's purpose is. So If i write such a poem: My mind wakes near flowers and awoken I stir in the forrest furs weeping the willows own tears, which I prefer. If that to you does not present itself strongly enough, on what grounds will you base your opinion, and judgement? What should I change, and why? and when you realise these feelings are more or less happy misunderstandings, you will see that works of art of an infinate lonliness and with nothing so little to be reached as with criticism. Quote: Originally Posted by Surreal The A.D. Prophet omg i just read that quote never EVER quote that shit to me LMAO It was a poem. Quote: Originally Posted by Surreal The A.D. Prophet wow, that is precisely....let me ask you, what makes a work of art a work of art? is it unquestioning acceptance of a piece as such? or is it inquiry into the nature of the piece? examination of its technique? contemplaction of the reality it creates? "so little as critical words"? please. criticism, but more clearly EVALUATION is bound to art's purpose. You can question whatever you want, I am not stating that a piece should not be investigated, I just have problems with people trying to push their weight around something so personal, and being judgmental in what would make it better, and what makes it bad. You use the terms evaluation and criticism as if they are cousins, they are not. Evaluation relates more to understanding, reflection, and enjoying poetry. Criticism relates more to belittling a piece out of your own arrogance, that what you think makes a poem good or bad and what should be the priority of the creator. It is one thing to try and understand the content, and quite another to try and take the reigns and change it to suit your own expectations of how poetry should be delivered sufficently. Quote: Originally Posted by Surreal The A.D. Prophet you astound me, as i am sure i astound you. there is really no explanation for your 'view'. i question whether it is a view, because there is little perception in it.? You don't astound me, you are like all the other poets I have met who are overly concerned with aesthetic criticisms. Quote: Originally Posted by Surreal The A.D. Prophet if we as humans are not to evaluate art, why SHOULD we to create art? it is not some magical release, some mystical expelling of energies, what is it? Evaluate them till the cows come home, till all the tea in china becomes readable tea leaves for you to decypher and say why they work or dont work, why they are wack, why they are good, what subjects you shouldnt write about, why love poems are to cliche. I will still be here thinking poetry is very much magical, and have an eye and ear in all senses, and create for what life puts infront of me journeying inward to find myself, my wants, my hopes, my fears, my wishes my dreams in my journal floating down my own stream, projecting a part of myself out of neccesity and recording my life as a journal through poems, and always seeking to see beauty in people.