'The Proposition'...and a big 'fuck you' to Brahman

Discussion in 'Movies, Entertainment & Various Music Genres' started by Ethan Albright, Oct 17, 2006.

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  1. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    I thought it was great...
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  2. Ethan Albright

    Ethan Albright New Member

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    you'd probably enjoy watching grass grow too.
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  3. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    I don't blame you, rippy... your sensibilities have been corrupted by the campaign of anti-intellectualism in America and your attention span has been shortened by the fast editing of the MTV generation. It's not your fault.
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  4. Brahman

    Brahman Mel Van Peebles

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    ah, don't go there, konscious... not called for

    don't know enough about rippy's taste to make a personal assessment, but i'm sure there are others with good sensibilities similar to yours and mine who would agree with his opinion

    hell, as i said in my 2nd reply, i felt the same way about lost in translation, and there would be fans of that who are tempted to say to me what you said to him...



    so, you ended up liking it, huh? that's good. glad i could be of some help.

    rental or purchase?
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  5. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    WHAT THE FUCK DO I HAVE TO DO WITH THIS THREAD?

    I let it go, I don't hold a grudge. I said What I wanted to say to you about the film, it was horrid! End of story!
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  6. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    circumstantial argumentum.

    You really need to stop.
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  7. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    Hey, quip for quip... blow for blow... I'm vengeful as fuck... sue me.

    And Brahman, he doesn't know enough about my tastes to make a personal assessment, either... so I guess we're even... I know enough about menaz's though.
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  8. Brahman

    Brahman Mel Van Peebles

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    the proposition and almost famous are horrid, but saw iii gets 4 out of 5 stars

    [funny][funny][funny]

    rich!

    i do too, and that's why i don't think i'll talk to him any longer after a few more posts
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  9. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    NO you don't. you don't even know me personally.
    plus I would think this thread means I have credibility.

    vengeful? settle down it's the internet.
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  10. Brahman

    Brahman Mel Van Peebles

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    how do you go from saying i "don't" know your tastes (keeping in mind that i've seen enough of what you like/dislike) to saying that this thread means you have credibility when you likely have even less of a clue of the thread starter's tastes?

    what if i mentioned the fact that roger ebert, a critic who isn't "artsy fartsy" by any means and likes a wide array of films including the popular mainstream, gave the proposition a perfect 4 stars?

    what if i were to bring all of the threads of praise made for it by people who are more well-versed in films than anyone on rm.com at different film sites?

    would that give me "credibility", or would it not because you think the thread starter represents the average everyday joe who isn't a "critic geek" thus making his opinion more "credible"?

    you frequently make no sense

    i'm settled, and this is fun actually... all i'm doing is picking apart your pathetic arguments and statements. good exercise for my mind and reinforcement of, what i find to be, my superior tastes!
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  11. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    I'm settled, kid... 'vengeful' means I'll always have a snappy retort for you until I get bored... it's comedy to me... it's how I get my kicks... from this and jackin' off to ebony and latin porn.


    And I don't have to know you personally... (this is the internet... remember?) I judge you by your posts, and you have demonstrated a lack of perspective and knowledge of cinema.
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  12. Ethan Albright

    Ethan Albright New Member

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    konscious.... i haven't watched mtv in atleast 5 years, and I'm known as an iconoclast....

    however I don't strive to be different like some others.... i'm not pretentious. I don't force myself to think I see the art behind something when my gut tells me it's fucking hideous. I don't need to feel elite. I don't need to TRY to be an intellectual..... some of us don't have to go out of our way.

    Some of us can watch something that the majority of people would think is pure shit, and agree that it is indeed pure shit.

    But yes... I do like to be entertained by films. If that's your blow to me... yeah. I'm guilty. I like not being so fucking bored with a movie that i begin to think such shit like "well, the cinematography sure is stunning"......

    forgive me.
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  13. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    Well, can't you understand that I can feel the same way and still appreciate the film?

    I think artful depictions and nuanced acting can be very entertaining.

    There is no pretense on my part... but yet you insult my sensibilities because I find value in the film and you don't.

    And finally, I didn't say you watched MTV... I said you were conditioned by the fast editing of the "MTV generation"... that network has influenced greatly the programming of film media since it's inception. So you don't have to watch the network in order to be affected by its influence.
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  14. Brahman

    Brahman Mel Van Peebles

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    [unpretentious]i'm about to say something really smart and insightful here...[/unpretentious]

    1st of all, i hope none of that was directed at me. i don't try to be different. i always have been. i was never congruous with my environment and always saw things differently than those around me.... maybe not necessarily "better" or "more sensible", but different nonetheless. i'm not pretentious either. when i suggest works that i think are good to others, i don't do it for them to come back to me and say, "damn, you have such great and intelligent taste! thank you for showing me the light!" i believe this to be true anyway whether they tell me they like it or not. i genuinely want them to be moved like i was and enjoy it for themselves.

    [intelligent and insightful nugget]2nd, want to know why the majority of mainstream taste is the way it is? i've thought about this...

    a vast majority of the population works hard check to check and gets only brief moments of leisure, so when they go to the movie theatre or sit down at night with a dvd on the tube, most are going to want to see something that is more kinetic, upbeat, and chock-full of content since that naturally stimulates the senses and keeps them awake after being bogged down day-in and day-out with their responsibilities. poetic and sparse narrative like the proposition is automatically predisposed to making them sleepy from the onset.

    am i elite? certainly not. i'm a full-time student whose life isn't all that hard at the moment as i have quite a bit of free time. who knows... when i finally finish my studies and get out into the grind for myself, my tastes may gradually shift towards the mainstream as my mind starts to slow down and get inundated with more responsibility

    do i think "elites" would enjoy this more than "common folk"? yes, it's very likely... all throughout humanity's history, the elites have had more freedom to take time and enjoy the arts. right or wrong, their tastes have always been looked at as "elevated" and "highbrow" as they enjoy things that wouldn't appeal to a lot of lower class members.

    entertainment vs. boredom is more of a product of people's dispositions when they watch a film, not the film itself.[/i & i n]

    the proposition was very entertaining to me... very. i love poetry, and the story is like poetry in structure. there may not be a lot of meat there, but i found intensity and mood in the emptiness. i was on the edge of my seat waiting to see what was going to happen.

    and, thinking about the cinematography, for me, isn't a result of being bored with the story... i look at cinematography right away for any film i'm watching. it's just one of the things i like paying attention to.
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  15. Brahman

    Brahman Mel Van Peebles

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    one more thing to say, and i'm done with this thread and talking about the proposition altogether... i've stated this before in other terms, but here i'll say it as plainly as possible.


    i loved the proposition. many others love it, too. i know i'm not "pretending" in the least bit, so my guess is that a lot of them aren't either.

    the proposition is a finely crafted and well-acted mood piece. anyone who isn't taken by the mood and atmospherics will probably have trouble identifying with its story. simply reading the screenplay wouldn't do much for me either.

    lost in translation is a mood piece, too. i wasn't taken by the mood and ended up thinking a lot of the same thoughts rippy did about the proposition.

    mood pieces are often hit or miss.
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  16. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    I'm living proof that you can have more responsibility (a wife, son, full-time job, etc.) and STILL maintain a taste for intellectual stimulation as well as a superficial one.

    EXACTLY!

    Boring is never a good or fair critique for any piece of commodity or art.


    See, I think there can be plenty of "meat" in nuances as opposed to there being a lack of "meat" in kinetic action. (See: any Steven Segal film... j/k)
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  17. Ethan Albright

    Ethan Albright New Member

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    The mtv generation is loving shit like Napoleon Dynamite.....

    to each his own I suppose. Like I said, I consider myself an artist but I've always been confused to see people admiring a canvas with splashed paint as if it's brilliant. I can't help but think they're pretending to see the genius behind it, because it's merely a canvas with splashes that anyone with paint could've created.

    same way with this. But art is in the mind of whoever views....so even if they are pretending.... it's still "art" if someone appreciates.
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  18. Konscious

    Konscious Resident Sage

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    It's one thing to call something "shit"... it's another to explain why you think it's "shit."

    There is nothing wrong with your opinion... but there is something wrong with you brow-beating others for not feeling the same as you do...

    If you would like to enlighten me as to your disgust for the film, then I'm all ears and we could possibly exchange a dialogue where we might both understand each other and respect the other's different view... but you continually insist that me and brahman are reaching for substance or trying to extract meaning out of a "canvas splashed with paint" without even attempting to understand why we enjoy the film in the first place... that appears to be more of an elitist attitude than what you're accusing me and brahman of having. Elitism basically means that only one opinion, one view, or one stance matters.
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  19. Ethan Albright

    Ethan Albright New Member

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    I explained it. The entire plot was pointless. The director made it impossible for viewers to develop a personal connection with any of the characters, so when something dramatic did happen.... it was dull emotionally.
    It was drawn out to last close to 2 hours when it could've been shown in 30 minutes and STILL ended up boring.

    There was no hero. There was no villain. I think there were supposed to be both but due to all the gaps left in the story, it turned out so dull.

    The acting was good....but the characters didn't even have a chance to make you feel them. The story almost seemed like dress rehearsal..... go through the motions...close curtain....wake everyone up in the seats and go home.


    Just extremely boring. There are only 2 movies I can ever remember thinking are simply horrible and hard to watch... this one and that shitty Sahara movie that recently came out I did manage to stay awake for the proposition unlike sahara though. Mainly because I kept thinking the entire time "ok....something's going to happen.... it's gotta pick up soon.... something has to happen......" and when it finally did and you think things might get interesting.............roll credits.


    Have you ever heard a friend or someone tell you a story after you ask them how their weekend went? This movie is sort of the same "Well, I was going to go grocery shopping, but my aunt came over and we talked till 9 about our family problems. I went to bed pretty early and woke up.... got a shower.... watched some tv.... then the cops came knocking on my door. That's about it."

    ..........?

    this movie left me the same way. "........?"....... "why was this even made....? what was the entire point?"

    again, maybe I was expecting a storyline..... i have a bad habit of doing so when watching movies.
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  20. il Librahman

    il Librahman C'era Una Volta...

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    [funny] eh, i said i was done, but i was wrong

    i don't like the comparison to a canvas of splashed paint, because that's a bunch of random nothingness that people can extract thousands of meanings out of. the proposition is nothing like that... it's more like a life-sized diorama set you'd run into in a history museum or wax art gallery, and i was a huge fan of those growing up. whenever my daycare or 1st-3rd grade teachers would take us on field trips there, i would always end up getting lost in those things.

    the sun-scorched leathery-faced blacksmith toiling away, the long-bearded civic leader reading the town decree as onlookers watched attentively in their rustic attire... all of the different characters and figures fascinated me. i didn't need to know their names or life stories. i simply took the situations that were depicted for what they were and was left to imagine how they got there and where they were going... poetic visual art.

    the proposition and sergio leone's westerns are a lot like that for me. i love the rough-hewn and unfinished storylines, the moral and characterizational ambiguity.. it's those same life-sized dioramas i've always loved but with operatic motion and economic dialogue added. cinematic heaven in my eyes. i don't need any background info about each involved to develop feelings for them. being a strong humanist, and simply seeing suffering and struggle is enough to make me feel immediately connected and get emotional at the things that happen.
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