The Empath (Book update!)

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Ghet for Prez, Apr 20, 2008.

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  1. Keith Cheese

    Keith Cheese I like Eric Sermon

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    Interesting read. I am sorry you had a rough time. That was such a harsh upbringing. Nobody deserves that.
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  2. McGirth

    McGirth New Member

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    your correct one objective of law is stability and order. Its one of its founding principals.
    Also your correct to imply that often people that come up with programs have social/post-modern objectives. but, their objectives are limited by the modern objectives. They don't have free reign.
    Further, your also apt to point out that they employ vast generalizations. This stems from both the nature of law which deals with categories that fit logically together & their very methods used in studying these things, emperical social science, which can lead to myopia. But, it dosen't always. People do use it to their advantage, but some people also get held. Its not all or nothing either way.

    But whats the alternative? Is there a perfect system? There dosen't really seem to be one. New versions of a grid lead to new forms of alienation.

    Your quite right that Irish-Americans don't have access to the visible minority grid. But they do have access to other grids/advantages. Its up to each to adapt, no one's situation is perfect. Imagine your main character, as say Fez from that 70s show (a generalized minoritym with no particular denomination). Would he really be better off?


    in terms of tragedy, I was pointing out tragedy in terms of what occured between your character and his parents.
    From the perspective of a child, parents have a sacred trust and children have a sacred duty to their parents. For parents to violate that trust puts children in a position, should they violate their duty (honour)?
    There's basically no right/wrong way out of it, hence, a tragedy (or psychological contradiction/ or psychological amorality). When these sorts of things occur, perception warps and bends. now look at that, your out of the grid! One can see it "objectively", but at the same time, one cannot re-enter without feeling alienated or like a shill.

    Ultimately the ideal would be for these people to be able to reintegrate, while retaining their unique gift.


    One useful way to think of this is that parents may also have been subject to the same/ or a different sort of tragedy. This tragedy then spreads between generations as each generation becomes blinded by its tragedy.
    think of the old ideas of bad blood, where sort of an injustice that occurs in one family that is not repaired ripples its way down the generations. I.e, they may not be psychologically culpable. The parents of your character may have been subject to similar crippling psychological contradictions.

    The only escape, really, from this chain is forgiveness & to man up when it comes to your character's own life/kids.

    Your quite right that suffering injustice can give your character alternate perceptions on life. But, at the same time, Dwelling on these things they can/wil destroy your characters and his perception.
    I'm wondering if your character's hatred/criticisms of the grid isn't just an artifact of tragedy, rather than an amoral or objective view of the grid.
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  3. Menaz, it's a growth process. I remember in full detail my mode of thought and conclusions when I was a child, a teen, a young adult, and now. I see the evolution of this process as the picture became wider and wider.

    But that is, ultimately, another point of the book. The larger picture is not only infinitely larger, but always changing in detail and structure. People are localized unto themselves and form conclusions that accurately reflect their survival sets and emotional triggers based on that environment. It's very ad hoc and that results in conflict during hybridization of environments.

    It will be backed up. In fact, review my next sketch. It will be fleshed out later today. http://fallenempath.blogspot.com/2008/04/glossary.html

    McGirth - This book is void of ideal situations because ideals are anthropomorphic assumptions of rigid systems. I could easy turn this in a Randian adventure of struggle and realization, but I will not. Collin's hatred of the grid and the history of how it came to be were, of course, rooted in his personal life. You cannot separate emotion from logic in the development of a system of thought. (due to evolutionary bias, which is another facet of the book)

    I spent years comparing my life with that of a minority. "Well, what if I was not white, would I be worst off?" I learned very quickly that comparing pain as if it was to be bartered and rendered is a byproduct of the grid, and a useless one at that. Every person's pain is their own and it shapes them, regardless of objectivity. The grid is the eBay for emotional pain where people bid and weigh in to determine where social justice should be doled out. That very process trickles down into culture and alienates further, causing more cynicism and more distrust of the altruistic grid.

    McGirth, I have cut this every which way I could possibly cut it. Yes, my mother went through her own trauma. Yes, the grid's impact on culture demands that I, the majority population, should be strong enough to walk it all off no matter what happens to me at any point in my life for the sake of keeping social programs available for the weak minorities that need it. Yes, I should keep my mind in flux at all times and reserve a special spot, devoid of logic, so that this altruistic system remains in place for the sake of stability.

    How much more compromise do I have to make for a system that has never benefited me once? It's like telling a Palestinian that many people in Israel went through the Holocaust. The response is a universal "Homie, I don't give a shit. I am being forced to ruthlessly adapt while others are padded from that reality for reasons that will always be illogical."
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  4. barnizzle

    barnizzle HIP HOP

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    damn ghet, that's some deep shit.
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  5. barnizzle

    barnizzle HIP HOP

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    damn...yo "online" racist ass really went thru it, huh?
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  6. Riz

    Riz Well-Known Member

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    It really is.
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  7. McGirth

    McGirth New Member

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    your acting like there's some sort of bonanza for minorities, like their handing out property/high paying jobs to minorities for being minorities. They don't give you property for being a minority, you don't get 40 acres and a mule. At best, you get a +3 tip on a 100point scale for entrance to some grueling 4 year program where you don't get paid, and don't have a guarenteed job at the end. Further, if you don't cut it in the program or don't get a job at the end, your now tens of thousands in debt that you actually can't even negate through bankruptcy!

    The grid is huge. Benefits to minorities = drop in the bucket. A drop that is designed to allay a particular historical social ill (i.e. racism).

    Resources for those who have been through horrific trauamtic childhood expereinces, had family problems growing up = another drop in the bucket. This drop is meant to allay another social ill (child abuse/neglect).

    The bucket is huge, we all benfit from it, includin you/your character, thousands of times. Do you use the streets? who do you think pays for those? Do you drink water from the tap? another element of the grid! What's stopping people from killing you/taking your property, one thing could be criminal law and their fear of its sanctions, another element of the grid! What about food regulations for safety? why do you think you aren't fed poisinous food? its the grid! Ever engage in a market transaction? why do you think they let you have the product when you paid $$, the grid again! (without it, tehy could just as easily have taken out a shot gun, and sent you on your merry way!)

    I don't see the rational connection, why you've decided that minorities receiving a few extra spots at schools is the the drop in the bucket that matters.

    Stop acting like its a cake-walk for minorities in life. Its not. A read an article by a black harvard prof who said something along the lines that he only wanted minorities to be treated equally, because right now there is prevailing culture that if you made it in, you must have received some sort of benefit, and are treated accordingly by employers on exit & by fellow students in the school who got there on dady's coin. When, in fact, that may no be true in every case, in which case those minorities, who actually do well on even terms, are screwed by the grid & people that use it as an excuse to discriminate. That's the grid those minorities face.

    But thats up to them to adapt and rebut the presumption, rather than sit on their hands and bitch about how the male anglo-saxon has it easier in the working world.

    your litterally fighting over miniscule crumbs from the crust of the pie that is the world market. AS if a +3 point on admissions is the be-and-end of all things.

    And if you didin't take advantage of the grid in your early adault life (18-22), because memories were too traumatic at that point to "check the right box". Well then, i give you advice a former boss once gave me, he told me that I was "so young" (i was 21) and that i could screw up my life 10 times over completely and still end up on top of the world. I took this advice to heart and i suggest you do the same. Don't let your past & present maladaption be a bar to your future attainment of hapiness. Also, today the grid takes into account post-tramatic stress, so the grid actually open to you RIGHT NOW.

    BUt, i digress, in terms of character for a book, its good stuff as long as you don't try to make him into some sort of protagonist. As Tragic figure would be cool.
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  8. Keith Cheese

    Keith Cheese I like Eric Sermon

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    What do you mean when you say "the grid"? You are smart Mcgirth. How many books have you read. What are your study habits? What is your advice for someone wanting to get smart? What attitude should they have? How should they try?
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  9. Here it comes, the "You're white, walk it off and save the crumbs for the people that need it " reflex that Academia has drilled into your DNA. It was only a matter of time before the true McGirth came out. And once again, you move the goal post with Herculean majestic, changing the word "grid" (based off of MY original usage of it in my first blog) to magically encompass the entire infrastructure of civilization, which was -NOT- the context this argument was framed in nor even remotely could it be confused as such instead of by people, such as your, attempting to add needless confusion!

    McGirth, people like you are the reason Collins hates people like you. You try to dictate who gets what based on individual history measured -HEAVILY- against what their ancestors population prevalence currently is. But when one individual of a popular demographic suffers, it's rose petals and red carpets for them.

    I swear to Jesus Cum-Drinking Christ, if you keep this mobile goal post shit up, I will put you on ignore and relegate your every argument to the part of my brain where I put every other dogmatic leftist fucktard. This is twice now. I will not waste my time after a third. I will not tolerate intellectual dishonesty and cheap parlor tricks designed to distract.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-03-13-federal-entitlements_x.htm

    $1.3 trillion is not a drop in the bucket. That is 9% of our fucking GDP. Give me 9% of your paycheck. It's just a drop in the bucket after all, am i rite!?

    The argument is not white people do not need benefits from these programs. I could give a fucking shit about these useless social programs designed by rich apologists to undermine our place in a global market. The argument is that because white people are -EXPECTED- to be better off, our culture willingly, intentionally, and happily turn a blind eye to those who are not. In the end, you will get people like Collins: amoral cynics who would happy watch the structures people like you support burn to the ground as violently as possible. And don't sit there on a smug ivory pillar and tell me I'm the fucking statistical anomaly. The order you support has failed me. The order you support will never apologize for failing me. The order you support will never adapt and learn by failing me because the order you support tells people like me to "Shut up and let darkie have his share."

    The order you support is designed for the single purpose of making sure that people who go through what I go through are guilt tripped into silence. The order you support was designed before the Internet existed. This will not bode well for the order you support.
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  10. The Giant

    The Giant New Member

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    You are not special,either is your book.

    Blacks>you
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  11. McGirth

    McGirth New Member

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    ^ wasn't completely sure about how you were using 'grid'. That makes it clearer. like

    I was totally thrown off by "I am what modern Western civilization has worked extremely hard to suppress", which implied by grid later that you meant all social order or morality, since your taking an amoral line (i.e. outside of western civilizations order altogether). I thought this included family structure, since your character was its victim...

    I thought you were rallying against all western order, not addendums from the last 60 years that have, if you've read any of my posts over the years, which I have argued on many occasions have led to many unintended consequences. From this perspective that grid=all western order, it really made no sense why your character was going after minorities specifcally. Really, just made him look angry & not reasoned/amoral. You may want to clarify that more in your writing it may turn people off to read further, if you don't make that clearer right off the bat. I think i'm not the only one who thought this, judging by other reactions.

    Maybe an opening paragraph on the grid (where you mention western morality in general, replace this). like, in the last 60 years the grid has atempted to... [name social policies].... your social perceptions on its results ... then eventually you intriduce yourself like "I am the remainder the grod never accounted for, etc..." or something like that. "I stand outside of its categories." then describe your character & his personal tragedy. I was thinking about this before, think about htat Hitler quote about "a person dies its a tragedy, a million people die its a statistic". you could flip that line as a way to critique how far we've taken things in the other direction that the grid creates personal tragedy for the sake of keeping its statistics in line, and no one cares. Which is a huge knock as to how post WW2 we've dealt with issues (as statistics).


    also fyi, my personal stance on politics is basically conservative with 2 caviats.
    (1) change is okay, as long as its slow and controlled, not haphardly done leading to all sorts of unintended consequences. if pushing it through slowly reveals it dosent work, it shoudl be pushed through. This also implies that any particular change in the system (For instance on families) should account for effects this will have in other areas.
    (2) if change was pushed through by someone else (or by tech), this change needs to be acknowleged, including its unintended consequences. We shoudlen't put on blinders and try to push change through or put on blinders and try to return things to the past. Neither is a viable solution. New synthesis is needed.
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  12. McGirth

    McGirth New Member

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    One more thing. if you mention stuff thats disturbing, expect your reader's focus on your next paragraph to be diminished, since they will likely expect more of the same. So structure wise, another reason why you may want to mention the grid first, then go into how your character dosen't fit into it and his personal tragedy. THen from there move into story.
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  13. Radium

    Radium f k

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    Ghet I thought this was a sci-fi epic

    based on that intro by Brian Collins I don't catch that feeling

    Is your character supposed to be a hero? its seems hard to get behind him because he seems to be fueled by hatred. I guess i mean

    I feel for him, but its hard to cheer for him
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  14. Radium

    Radium f k

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    McGirth you heard that new Nas?
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  15. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    This could be a very insightful book if you use all kinds of histroic/scientific factual examples to get your point across. There well be a chapter about memes I hope? Please send me a copy when your finished I enjoy your perceptive on alot of issues. I won't judge it until I've read the final product and fully understood where you're coming from.
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  16. Thank you for politely returning on topic.

    The original quote: I was so far off the grid that to even consider that conditions such as mine were possible would result in that person being tarred and feathered as a "racist" and "insensitive to those of a higher social justice priority".

    The grid as in part of the supposed support network (That $1.3 trillion in social programs) which appears to be exclusively for, seemingly, everyone but populations who are expected to be well-off because of their skin color.

    Collins doesn't hate minorities. In fact, to even come to that conclusion reinforces his hatred of Western Culture... a culture that teaches you "If someone words anything impolite to the minority agenda, it must be because he hates them." This is a juvenile deduction that is enforced by modern Western morality. Collins couldn't care less about minorities. In fact, that's the point. Collins doesn't care about any social group simply because he has none to relate to himself. And further more, he is ultra-cynical towards anyone that thumps their chest about social contracts to "protect" any of these groups because these same contracts totally and completely neglected (outright refused WITH cultural justification to validate the exclusion) to include him. Of course, throughout his life, people constantly harass him for this outlook for very simply reasoning: they bought the altruism nonsense hook, line, and sinker, and feared to question it, and thusly, feel justified to go after people that do. Eventually Collins stops being vocal, and starts building his network quietly.

    Throughout his life, the only source of predictability and stability Collins could ever find was that of toying with a computer, math equations, etc. This is why Collins is The Empath. He is probably one of a handful of people who would could empathize with a machine intelligence, and thusly, make it less fearful in a world that has dramatically rejected advancements in technology due to their zealous adhesion to the Western Religion of Environmentalism.

    And you are correct, McGirth. By page 3, I show the life of an average citizen in the future world. I describe his very small, very eco-friendly home and have him reading an article from his news feed. The article is about how another illegal cloning lab was shut down in Europe. This makes him mad, as he gripes to his husband about how overpopulation is such a dramatic problem. The grid gets described and I want it to appear as "progressive" as possible while building up why it this grid leads to absolute and total ruin in the face of the advancing technology the common man fears.
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  17. Radium

    Radium f k

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    as he gripes to his husband?
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  18. the citizen male gripes to his husband, yes.

    this is the world of the future.
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  19. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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  20. Tequila Jong-il

    Tequila Jong-il SALAD TOSSER

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    Are there any dragons in this?
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