The Donovan McNabb problem.

Discussion in 'Sports Central' started by d-rell, Nov 13, 2009.

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  1. d-rell

    d-rell New Member

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    Donovan McNabb has been a pretty heavily scrutinized QB, even in his own town of Philadelphia. Perhaps most famously by Rush Limbaugh. Limbaugh of course tends to criticizes the media as though somehow his radio/former television work doesn't qualify under the umbrella of media. Former QB Steve Young has been critical of McNabb's knowledge of the Eagles offensive system, and his ability to execute from the pocket. The Philly fans, at least a nice sample size of their opinions from various public talks and online forums, seem to show more support for McNabb's backups more than for him (whether it be Koy Detmer, Jeff Garcia, or Kevin Kolb). Former teammates Terrell Owens and Freddy Mitchell have voiced their criticisms regarding McNabb's QB performance, Owens went so far as wishing that Brett Favre was his QB instead of McNabb (The same Terell Owens that cried in defense of Tony Romo). What are peoples problem with McNabb, is he really overrated?

    Well, let's start with Tony Romo. Tony Romo has played on some Dallas teams with defenses as equalled talented as the defenses that McNabb has played on throughout his tenure with the Eagles. When comparisons are drawn with Romo and McNabb the arguments that favor Romo are based on his regular seasons performance. But lets assess the receiver factor. Both Romo and McNabb were paired with superstar playmaker and WR Terrell Owens. In the one full season we're a healthy McNabb played with a healthy Terrell Owens, McNabb posted a career high 104.7 QB rating. Tony Romo became the Cowboys starting QB in 2006, and for the '06,'07, and '08 season played with T.O. with a QB rating in the mid to high 90's. From these trending statistics you can't help but wonder what McNabb's regular season career Passer rating would've looked like with big time playmaker receiver like T.O. on board for the majority of his career. Imagine Joe Montana/Steve Young's career passer minus Jerry Rice/ Kurt Warner minus Bruce and Fitzgerald/ Peyton Manning minus Marvin Harrison/ Aikman without Irvin. So who can we link McNabb to? He's in a class with the Dan Marino's, Brett Favre's, Tom Brady's: good QB's (ratings wise) that spent the majority of their careers without that big playmaking go-to receiver you could argue. Here's a stat most don't seem to know Donovan McNabb has a better career rating than Brett Favre, and one equalled to the pre-Randy Moss Tom Brady and Mr. Dan Marino. As far Favre, his advantage was that for the majority of his career he had solid backs in the backfield (Green, Levens, Bennett); for the majority of Favre's career there was a 1,000 yard rusher in the backfield. Donovan McNabb 10 year starter career is more like Marino in that through the majority of it, his offenses were without a solid rushing attack. In his 10 years as a starter, Eagles running backs have only topped the 1000 rushing three times, and one of those seasons McNabb was injured.

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  2. Your Idol

    Your Idol ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

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    LOL at comparing McNabb to the great one aka Dan Marino.
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  3. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    right right...."golden arm" Dan Marino....but how many Super Bowl's does he have? Does he even have a Super Bowl appearence?

    One thing I hated about McNabb...he became a pure pocket passer to silence his critics. Well, that's why *I* think he did it. Like Vince Carter who became a jump-shooter to prove to ppl he wasn't just a dunker. I used to love to watch McNabb take off and run....
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  4. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

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    McNabb is degrading....Most of everything TO said about him was correct...he was in terrible shape, his accuracy is sporadic at times, etc. McNabb trying to silence his critics MAY be possible but him having to play in Philly, in that atmosphere, i don't see how critics would bother him..He likely stopped running because he is getting to old to be getting clobbered like he was getting...Dude has had soo many injuries from trying to take off and run..
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  5. PR STATUS GFU

    PR STATUS GFU Under The Influence

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    put in vick..
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  6. Your Idol

    Your Idol ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

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    The success of a team as a whole doesn't determine if one QB is better than another. Obviously Drew Brees is a better QB than Roethlisburger... but guess who won the super bowl last year? McNabb passed for 450 yards and only had 2 touchdowns on Sunday. That tells you the running game isn't there and if you want to blame anybody for the Eagles coming up short it's not Donovan it's fragile Brian Westbrook.
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  7. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    Brees is having a monster year..... but there's still a lot of people who think Roethlisburger is better. Ben won the Super Bowl while only losing one game all year - AS A ROOKIE. Went on to win another Super Bowl too..... So these people aren't just Steeler fans. They have a legitimate point.

    I guess the thinking is that the quaterback is so integral to the team's success or faillure. The QB touches the ball every down. Everything on offense begins with him. So team success is a big factor in measuring how good a QB is.
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  8. Your Idol

    Your Idol ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

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    Every super bowl Ben has won was due to his defense carrying the team just like both of the Manning's super bowls. Ben has gotten better this year but he's not even top 5 in the league. A lot of people can think Ben is better all they want they would just be wrong. Ben was one of the worst QBs in the league last year and had the best defense in the league. Brees had a monster year but the defense sucked and the team went nowhere. Explain to me how a quality defense makes a bad QB better and a poor defense makes a great QB worse.
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  9. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    Why are you asking me to explain YOUR point for you?

    Tho I see what you're getting at - that team success depends offense and defense both...

    But putting points on the board is more important than stopping the other team's offense. Brady and Moss went 19-1 by setting offensive records. You can have a shitty defence, but if you're scoring 45 every game, you're winning.

    Did Marino's defences allow 40 pts. a game or something?

    edit* by the way, it wasn't Ben's defence that engineered that late 4th quarter drive to win the Super Bowl.
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  10. Your Idol

    Your Idol ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

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    That game plan didn't work out well for the Saints last year ^^^
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  11. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    ^^^Did the Saints have the #1 ranked offense in the NFL last year? And what was their defense ranked?
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  12. Your Idol

    Your Idol ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠

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    Their record was 8-8

    Scored 463 points (28.9/g), 1st of 32 in the NFL.
    Allowed 393 points (24.6/g), 26th of 32 in the NFL.
    Differential of 70 points (4.4/g), 10th in the NFL.

    1st in the NFL in points scored, yards earned, passing attempts, passing yards, and touchdowns. All meanwhile being at the middle to bottom of the NFL in almost all defensive categories.

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor/2008.htm
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  13. d-rell

    d-rell New Member

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    ^
    If that's the case then McNabb has brought the Eagles to the NFC Championship 5X's, thats more than any current QB except Tom Brady whom he's tied with. They've reached the playoffs 6 out of the 8 seasons that McNabb was healthy and starting. McNabb has a 64% regular season winning pct%, that better than hall of famer John Elway (whom McNabb also has a QB rating 6 points higher than). The Eagles have had great regular success under McNabb, which includes four divisions championship in his eight healthy seasons (Over half the time McNabb was healthy the Eagles won the tough NFC East division); among current QB's only Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Ben Roethlisberger have quarterbacked their franchises to a divison title over half of the seasons in which they where healthy. Despite the Eagles regular season success, McNabb has only reached the super bowl once... but then again so did Peyton Manning, although Peyton and the Colts won their only super bowl appearence. Although Peyton has authored record breaking regular seasons with the Colts (117-59), he's only (7-8) in the playoff's, McNabb's record in the playoff's is (9-6). Peyton's career as a starter began two seasons before McNabb's yet in the same amount of playoff experiences (15) McNabb has two more victories.

    It obviously takes a combination of defense and offense to be a winning franchise in the NFL. If your offense is really bad, then your defense better pick up the slack (e.g. 2000 Baltimore Ravens), and if your defense is really bad, then you offense better supplement (e.g. 1999 St. Louis Rams). Even though the hypothetical argument is usually made that if Peyton were in McNabb's place with that great Eagles defense he would've won 3 or 4 super bowls - this is a somewhat circular argument. If Peyton were in McNabb's place then he'd have NO Marvin Harrison (perhaps the second best receiver all-time to Jerry Rice), Reggie Wayne, or Dallas Clarke. Yeah, thats interesting I wonder what Peyton would do without any solid receivers over the course of his career and no running game. In McNabb's eight seasons as starter the Eagles have a 1000 yard rusher only twice. The "one season" where McNabb was fortunate to play a full season with a big time playmaker receiver was in 2004, where he posted a Manning-like an career high 104.7 QB Rating and 31 TD passes. T.O. got injured in the playoff's that year, but McNabb and the offense rolled into their first ever super bowl appearence that year in which they lost. So what if Donovan and Peyton traded places? McNabb has proven that with one solid wide receiver he can go over the 100+ QB rating mark, now imagine McNabb playing his career with Harrison and Wayne.

    What makes a good offensive quarterback I wonder? In 2002 the Tampa Bay Buccaneers won the super bowl with an excellent defense and a starting quarterback, Brad Johnson, that threw for 22 TD's and only 6 INT. McNabb is QB of an Eagles offenses that disproportionately relys on the pass sort of like the Saints offenses the last few Seasons. McNabb just like Saints QB Drew Bree's has suffered from injuries throughout his career, but unlike Bree's, in the seasons where McNabb was healthy he finished throwing for, on avg., around 10 INT in 500 pass attempts. Brees while in healthy seasons throughout his career throws about 50 more times, tosses 15 or 16 INTs. Although Brees on avg. throughout he's career as a healthy starter has, of course on more attempts, thrown for slightly more yards and touchdowns than McNabb, their touchdown-to-INT ratio is virtually the same. But lets not forget that before the Saints Brees career started in San Diego, where Brees played with the benefit of one of the leagues best running attacks headed by LDT. Brees has had a 1000 yard rusher in 7 of the 9 seasons that he's started in his career. The clicher is that Drew Brees played on a talented Saints team Duece and later Marcus Colston, and on a Charger team with a solid defense, solid OL, and future hall of famers LDT and TE Gates, Brees HAS ONLY REACHED THE PLAYOFFS TWO SEASONS IN A NINE YEAR CAREER, and his record once he got there (1-2).

    Not too mention McNabb has over 3000 rushing yards in his career, that's top 10 all-time.

    Factoring in team success, which is essential.. top 5 current QB's.

    1. Tom Brady
    2. Peyton Manning
    3. Brett Favre
    4. Donovan McNabb (even though McNabb has a better career QB rating than Favre, he'll need a few more seasons of staying healthy or a super bowl I think to establish himself over Favre.)
    5. Drew Brees
    * Roethlisberger a close #6

    If McNabb could stay healthy I think he has a good five seasons left in him so we'll see what happens.

    ~1~
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  14. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    So Brees's ass is covered for not making the Super Bowl last year...

    Does Marino have the same excuse for his whole career? Was his defense at the bottom of the League every year?
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  15. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    I agree with what you say about Brees. If he doesn't make it far in the post-season this year than I will officially decree him to be overrated....a regular season stats-padder.

    And I agree 100 percent with your assessment of McNabb. Contrary to what Rush Limbaugh says, I think he's underappreciated by the media.
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  16. PR STATUS GFU

    PR STATUS GFU Under The Influence

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    "I hate myself!"
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  17. ezejesus

    ezejesus New Member

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    Mcnabb is clearly one of the top QB's in the leaue. At times he is inaccurate throwing balls in the dirt or just too low and he has had his share of injuries but overall he has been very successful. All he needs is a Super Bowl and a solid 4 or 5 more years of consistency and he may be HOF worthy.
    As far as Drew Brees, as long as he continues to put up the statistics he has been recently, he may become one of the greatest. His downfall is championships. Conference and NFL championships. I'm sure atleast a conference championshp is in his future as long as he stays healthy.

    There shouldn't even be a discussion about whether Marino is one of the greatest.
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  18. hYpOconDriAdIcT

    hYpOconDriAdIcT New Member

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    ^^^ hahahahaha wut else would u expect from the same guy who said Ladainian Tomlinson is better then Emmitt Smith? classic case of reverse racisim...

    u believe black QBs are at a disadvantage so u give them more credit then they deserve...to say mcnabb is better then big ben and drew brees or phillip rivers or even Aaron Rogers is idiotic... what has Mcnabb ever done worth noting??? have a decent QB rating woooooow big deal...

    To be a great QB you gotta be tough...name one all time great who wasnt and Mcnabb is one of the most injury prone QBs ive ever seen..


    in fact in his 11 year career he has only played all 16 games 4 times (haha) and its funny... every time he gets hurt the eagles are goin down hill... his back up gets them into the playoffs and then mcnabb blows it.

    done
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  19. Joro

    Joro New Member

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    LOL ....

    at least you asked a question and admitted your ignorance
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  20. hYpOconDriAdIcT

    hYpOconDriAdIcT New Member

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    if u guys wanna make an arguement for underrated black QBs start a thread about Mcnair or Warren Moon...

    McNabb is an injury prone pus who has spent his whole career in a pass happy QB friendly offense which typically throws the ball over 60% of the time so of course he'll put up decent numbers LOL so did Kevin KOLB while Mcnabb was injured (once again)

    this thread is dumb
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