Someone Explain Why Illmatic...

Discussion in 'Hip-Hop Central' started by -Oz-, Dec 17, 2006.

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  1. b1nder

    b1nder New Member

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    yo, for real tho, you cant compare this shit to technology. besides, some people might think nintendo is better than xbox?
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  2. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    Yes you can... It's a metaphor... Don't take it so literally.....

    It's about the evolution/advancement of the two so it works..... And if anyone realistically thinks that a Nintendo wit its 16 bit graphics is better than an XBox, I'd say they're ignorant......
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  3. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    I understand the point you are trying to make, and I definitely do not think that impact and greatness are the same, but in most cases they do go hand in hand, and the fact of the matter is, Illmatic was one of the most IMPACTFUL hip hop albums ever AS WELL AS one of the GREATEST hip hop albums ever. Everything that hip hop is about, in its essence, Illmatic is outstanding in. If you do not recognize this, you are not a true hip hop head, you are simply a casual listener, and there is nothing wrong with that. The fact that you are comparing the transformation of hip hop over the bast 15 years to advancement in technology proves that what you mostly care about is production and "the sound" of rap moreso than lyrical/poetic/MCing aspects... Just like Superman70:


    The kind of people who have ^ that view of hip hop music are not true hip hop fans, because the sound of the song is not what hip hop is primarily about, that is not the essence. The essence of hip hop is represented in its greatest and most pure form on Illmatic. Period.
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  4. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    I understand the metaphor, but he is right when he says u cant compare music and technology, because technology is a science and hip hop is an art. As technology in video games gets better, the gaming systems will also get better, that is common sense and it is not arguable. You are saying that as hip hop becomes more advanced and modernized, and the "technology" of production and such gets better, the music will also get better, and that is not necessarily true, and is definitely not true in this case.
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  5. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    uppin so I can get a response from ANDtheMC
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  6. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    What the fuck? I'm all about the "lyrical/poetic/MCing" aspect... What the fuck are you talking about? Rhyme schemes, metaphors, styles, things people do wit bar structures, and more have advancede.... I'm not just talking about beats or mixes or how tracks/albums are mastered..... Rhymes-styles in general have advanced..... If you don't recognize that, then you are a casual rap listener....

    And beyond that, Nas isn't as poetic as people make it seem.... I've heard rappers rap about the same shit he does in Illmatic with better rhyme schemes and were more visual due to the use of visual rhymes 'n better metaphors.... I'd rather listen to Common talk about the hood than Nas.... Don't tell me I'm not into the MCing aspect cuz that's completely out your ass.....

    Once again, rhyme schemes/lyrical shit/metaphors/more have advanced... Rhyme-styles have advanced, even if the content has degressed.... But the cats that use good content today and have iller rhyme schemes are better as far as "lyrically" than Nas was and is......

    I'm sorry, it's just the truth..............
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  7. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    No, you are DEFINITELY wrong... There's TECHNICAL aspects to rhyming that have had tremendous advancements from the days of monosyllabic rhymes 'n single word multisyllabic rhymes into compound multisyllabic rhymes 'n use of more varied rhyme schemes..... The FACT is that rhymes have advanced, as well as production, as well as mixing....... Once again, CONTENT may have degressed but that's often a conscious decision in hopes to sell.... But THE ART OF RHYME has come a LONNNGGGGG wayyyyyyyy..... If you disagree with that, you're ignorant........ The elite of today took what Kool G Rap, Rakim, and Big Daddy Kane were doin' (as far as schemes) 'n upped them.... Not all of them are great because their content lacks but there's some that have the substance and do that.....
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  8. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    Like what? (of modern rap)

    See that is where you are dead wrong, who the hell has upped the art of rhyme, and rhyme schemes and bar structure since Rakim, G Rap and BDK, and Nas for that matter. What newer artists do any of that better? ABSOLUTELY NONE. Kool G Rap's rhyme schemes are absolutely unmatched by any artist that came after him. I don't understand what music and waht artists you are actually referring to when you make statements like "The art of rhyme has come a LONNNNGGG WAYYYY," no it fuckin hasn't, Rakim, G Rap, BDK, Nas ect. are still the greatest in those aspects, as is Illmatic as far as albums go.

    And that is very off the pont anyway, we are talking about Illmatic and Nas' albums post Illmatic. Are you actually trying to say that Nas' "Rhyme schemes, metaphors, styles, things people do wit bar structures" have become more advanced SINCE Illmatic??? Are you joking??? The TECHNICAL aspect of Nas' lyricism and rhyming is ABSOLUTELY UNMATCHED on Illmatic, by ANYTHING that he did after that, do you actually disagree with that? Just look at a song like "Memory Lane." The rhyme schemes and the use of inner rhyme is mind boggling on that track, and that is a distinct style that Nas adopted from Rakim and Kool G Rap, but are you sayin that other artists that have come after have done it better? If you are sayin that then u are dead wrong.
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  9. ANDtheMC

    ANDtheMC New Member

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    I'm goin' to bed.... I'll respond to this tomorrow... I'll I"m gonna say is... You put Nas up wit G.Rap, Rakim, and BDK as far as rhyme schemes? WTF!?!?! Show's how much you know.....

    And Eminem in his prime, Crooked I, Copywrite, even Masta Ace, Common, Pharoahe Monch, Royce da 5'9, and more are better if not as good AT RHYME SCHEMES.....

    The rest, I'll respond to tomorrow..........
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  10. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    You criticize me for putting Nas in the same category as the kings of rhyme schemes, all I said was he was influenced by them and has a similar style for rhyme schemes, especiallly on Illmatic. But wait, you just said that COMMON WAS BETTER THAN RAKIM, G RAP, AND BDK!!!!????? COMMON?????? Wow whatever, we had a good little back and fourth there, but you vastly underrate how advanced and adept Illmatic was as an album in a lyrical and technical sense, as well as poetic. That is a huge reason why it is regarded as one of th best albums ever, i just don't reall yget where uer comin from when ure talkin about Common bein better or more advanced lyrically than G Rap and Rakim. Whatever, enough typing for me. One.
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  11. D.Cipher

    D.Cipher New Member

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    yo, guys, seriously at the end of the day it all comes down to something really simple...


    if someone likes the album they like the album, and if they don't they don't, you can't tell someone what to like and what not to like. So if people still bump Illmatic just let it go, damn.


    Is Illmatic Nas's best album? No
    Did it pave the way for Nas' style today? Yes, as well as countless other rappers
    Is it classic? Yes

    People spend so much time comparing shit you forget how to appreciate things for what they are. I listen to illmatic for the same reason I can listen to Al Green, besides just plain liking the music, the nostalgic feel i get is priceless. Especially when you listen to mainstream music of today, that shit is SOULESS. Listening to old albums takes me back to a time when artists gave a fuck about music...damn, what's so hard to understand about that? Bumpin illmatic makes me want to put a lighter in the air and wave it side to side...


    and for the record...as i've already said (i think 4 times prior in this thread), this topic has been argued to death, and the result? Jack shit. So for the love of god, let it go damn
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  12. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    ^ ure talkin some sense, Illmatic is the 2nd best hip hop album of all time in my opinion, and others think its mediocre, and neither opinion is gonna change by arguing so im done with it.
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  13. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    wow. I never thought I'd see the day when me, ANDtheMC and OZ agreed on the same topic, lol

    First of all, I listen to hip hop for at least 3-5 hours every day, be it in my headphones, or the speakers. I'm FAR from a casual listener

    let me tell you why yours and many other people's opinions might be flawed.

    You've gone on and on for many pages talking about how Illmatic paved the way for other rappers and how it impacted hip hop when it came out, yet neither you or anyone else has actually discussed THE ALBUM ITSELF. I saw you mention Memory Lane once and I saw people post up lyrics, but no one is REALLY Discussing "Illmatic" the album because everyone is so biased towards it. Either its old and outdated or it had a huge impact and is a classic.

    We should be discussing the SONGS that are on the damn album, not how it helped hip hop.

    1. Genesis
    2. New York State of Mind
    3. Life's A Bitch
    4. The World Is Yours
    5. Halftime
    6. Memory lane
    7. One Love
    8. One Time 4 Your Mind
    9. Represent
    10. It aint hard 2 tell

    this is probably the first time ALL of the songs have been mentioned in one post.
    Illmatic aint that great of an album. Its a good album, but not GREAT.

    To say that nas' lyrics and flow are on illmatic are unmatched is insane. on It Was Written, his lyrics and flow were the exact same. The only things different were the beats and the level of creativity (Nas got WAY more creative with this album, and the beats weren't all that, but everything else made up for it.)

    How can you say that 9 songs with all the same content is better than all the creative shit nas did post illmatic?
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  14. D.Cipher

    D.Cipher New Member

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    no one has discussed all of the tracks because...WE'VE ALREADY DISCUSSED THIS COUNTLESS FUCKING TIMES IN THE PASSED FEW WEEKS

    but fuck it here we go as I fire up the album

    1.) The Genesis (intro)

    I always liked this intro, no i'm not calling it some monumental life changing intro. I'm simply saying, I like it, the casual convo with the casual beat in the back, chill, effective, I like, that's enough. My grade: 3 out of 5. *note at the end how Nas says "niggas don't listen"...just find it funny how it pretains to some of you because obviously some of you can't fucking read

    2.) NY State of Mind

    The beat is hot as hell and Nas's lyrics are like a smack in the face...a good smack. The overall production of the song is tight as hell. Let's the listener realize they're in for some ill shit on this album. Nas's lyrics are on point, his storylines / metaphores depicting NY Life work perfectly, and the beat is seductive and works perfectly for the type of song

    my grade: 5 out of 5

    3.) Life's a bitch

    Nas switches up the tempo from an agreesive track to a chill reflective track with a simple message: life's a bitch until you die, so live it up while you have the energy to do so. Nas's lyrics are STILL on point, not as strong as NY state of mind but that doesn't make it weak by any means. "I switched my motto instead of saying fuck tomorrow, that buck that bought a bottle coulda struck the lotto" The beat is pretty chill, nothing groundbreaking. Score: 4 of 5.

    4.) The world is yours

    Nas switches to tempo again to a more inspirational song. First, this is one of my favorite Nas tracks of all time so please excuse a little bias here but fuck it. Even the way Nas starts the song is hot. "Understandable smooth shit that murderers move with...out of for dead presidents to represent me." The song alone has massive lines that were sampled and reused for songs throughout the years. Beat is great as well. Grade: 5 of 5

    5.) Halftime

    Nas brings the tempo back up with this one as well as does a great job of bringing raw lyrics. Now this beat right here is noticeably outdated but guess what? I and other Nas fans...don't...give...a flying fuck. Who cares? The song is still hot. Nas' flow & lyrics on this one make me want to pick up a mic and freestyle whenever i hear this song. Grade 4 of 5.

    6.) Memory Lane

    Now here Nas does something he's definitely one of the best at...making reminiscing tracks. If you don't like this beat you should probably smack yourself IMO but i'll be fair and objective about it. The beat does a great job of setting the whole reminiscing tempo and Nas finishes the job with his lyrics, flow, and storylines.
    Grade: 4.75 of 5

    7.) One Love

    Why this track is so controversial on this site I'll never know, but this definitely started a lot of arguments...why? because the beat is simple..."it's just a freakin xylophone"...who the fuck cares. If a xylophone and a drum can make a better beat for the song than $500,000 worth of studio equipment then so be it. Sorry Lil Jon couldn't feature on this one but I think it was a lil before his time...Anyway, this song is definitely a fan favorite amongst the Nas fans. Storyline: great, lyrics: great again, beat: GREAT, grade: 5 of 5

    8.) One time 4 your mind

    Probably the weakest link of the album but that doesn't necessarily make the song weak. Nas still maintains the same level of lyricism but this probably my least favorite beat on the album. There's nothing really outstanding to say about this track. Grade: 3 out of 5

    9.) Represent

    If you don't like this song you must not be a Nas fan. Why? Because this song has all the raw elements that Nas has maintained throughout all the years of his career. So for you to like Nas now but not like this song is puzzling to me. Lyrics: on POINT, Beat: definitely one of my favorites on the album, Flow: Do i even need to talk about this anymore? It was on point like always.
    Grade: 5 of 5

    10.) It aint hard to tell

    Now...if you don't like THIS song not only are you not a Nas fan but you can go fuck yourself. Jk...this song is damn near flawless, perfect way to end an album and leave a listener yearning for more. Everything about this song is on point, every last element of the song. Grade: 5 of 5

    Overall: the album is CLASSIC...it's GREAT...is it Nas's best album? NOPE, but does that make it any less significant? HELL NO.

    I could have done a much better review but it's 3AM, happy now Dream?
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  15. N-TeLLigeNt

    N-TeLLigeNt aka Novill Da Truth

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    ...Bravo...taht was some good shit.
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  16. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    instead of writing my own review, since I am in pain from shoulder surgery right now and dont feel like typin that much, I will give a link to a page on Epinions.com where many dedicated reviewers have taken more time and more thought into reviewing and rating the albumm

    This is 58 reviews by random members of epinions, and EVERY SINGLE ONE GAVE ILLMATIC 5 STARS. This is 58 different people with different views and opinions on hip hop, and there is not ONE review that even gives the album even 4 stars, every one is a 5...

    http://www.epinions.com/musc_mu-128592/display_~reviews/sec_~opinion_list/pp_~1#list
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  17. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    ^ i just was goin through them again and realized I missed one jamoke who gave it 2 stars, soo 57 out of 58 reviews give it 5 stars...
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  18. killah_crakkka

    killah_crakkka DSL's+6&quote;+MEN HOLLA!

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    damn... yall dont even know how i feel about this.. its like i cant believe you kids say what you say sometimes.. im not even gonna try explaining why illmatics a classic... just listen to the cd and if you dont like it then............. you dont like hip hop. its nas's best album and a classic.. it was written is classic too but we're talkin illmatic the best cd ever.. and not for its time.. its a classic cause it stands the test of time idiots... dmannnnnnnn forget it im so mad at yall for bein dumb.. its like do you even like hip hop? seriously.. fuck off.
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  19. Sparticus2

    Sparticus2 New Member

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    ^ its really only like 3 kids that are actually disputing Illmatic's greatness, out of everyone that has posted, so dont generalize.

    On another note, this is the best reviewer on Epinions.com brief Pros and Cons of the album...


    Nas' Illmatic - Often Imitated, but Never Duplicated, No Doubt, one of the Greatest

    by bigd99999 - Top 100, Jun 30 '03

    Pros: CLASSIC, Pure Unmatched Lyrical Masterpiece, Rellevent and Brilliant Subject-Matter, Perfect Production, No Filler, AZ

    Cons: Too Short... I WANT MORE!
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  20. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    props man, props

    This is the REAL way to tell if an album is a great album.

    I actually agree with a lot of it except that:

    -If DJ so and so made the One Love beat 2 years ago and you heard it for the first time, you would most likely say its wack. Great beats (like Represent and It aint hard 2 tell) are supposed to be timeless.

    -^^ditto for one time 4 your mind. And as far as how good ONe Time for your mind is lyrically, it aint up to par with the rest of the album.

    - You barely mentioned content at all, which is what the album is SERIOUSLY lacking...

    but once again, PROPS.
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