So I read the Epic of Gilgamesh last night

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by AliceHouse, May 27, 2013.

  1. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

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    I haven't read it since long ago when I was a wee lass.

    You can read it as well, here:

    Epic of Gilgamesh

    Now, Ass Napkin Ned, with that out of the way... if you have a point to your incoherent ramblings, now would be the time to make it.
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  2. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Cool now watch this
    [youtube]KMSsosBfkg8[/youtube]
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  3. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

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    I agree and disagree with certain things in that. And certain things, like the stability of Noah's ark, I don't feel I'm (yet) qualified to judge.

    Indeed, the two flood stories are similar. But they are incredibly and vastly different. Both in minor details (the types of birds) to major details (the types of arks) to rather incredible details (the gods.) To say that one is derived from the other is to say that since Incredible Hulk and Fantastic Four movies both involved people gaining super powers from radiation, that one clearly borrowed from the other and must be true... despite the overwhelming differences. Both in minor details (types of radiation) to major details (the alignment of the heroes) to rather incredible details (the disobeying of the laws of physics.)

    Also, I feel it's quick to conclude that, because cultures across Earth all have flood stories with similiar details, that we must conclude a global flood happened. I feel it would be more prompt to figure that human beings around the world tell similiar stories. That the human brain works with the same underlying archetypes for everyone. (Indeed, if we were to jump to such conclusions, we'd be forced to believe in vampires and ogres and dragons as well.)
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  4. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    given the proximity of the sumerian civilization to the later israelite civilization, it seems hard to believe that they both independently came up with such similar stories without one influencing the other, even indirectly.
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  5. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

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    But just how similar are they?
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  6. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    i haven't actually read gilgamesh, but i'm operating on the assumption that the stories actually share all of the themes they're said to share.

    this is from the institute of creation research, which i regret having to cite. but it's the simplest and most concise breakdown of the similarities i've heard that these two stories share.
    [​IMG]
    The Flood of Noah and the Flood of Gilgamesh

    feel free to contradict any of those similarities.

    but i think it's also compelling when you look at the general similarities that the near-east flood stories have with each other (sumerian, babylonian, israelite, assyrian, etc) in comparison to the other flood stories from around the world which don't share as many similarities. the main themes are that some god devises to wipe out mankind, one man is told to make a boat to save his family (and close associates in some cases) and all of the species of the earth, and the boat later lands on a mountain where that man makes a sacrifice to the god who saved him.

    Flood Stories from Around the World

    seeing that the influence the sumerians had on the babylonians is well established, i don't think it's far fetched to presume that some intermingling of these ancient near-east cultures could account for a common myth that was altered by each culture it came into contact with.
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  7. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

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    I would certainly compel you to study talkorigins.org extensively.

    As I said, similarities are only that and it would be wrong to infer further without supporting evidence. Evolution, for example, does not rest entirely on evidence of similiar bone structure of vertabraes.

    Many of the deluge myths really don't share the same motif as Noah. Some don't even have humans in them. But even then, the ones that do... they have similiar qualities, but on basis of facts are vastly different. The specific hero of the story is always someone different, the type and length of flood is never the same, the boat built always varies in size and shape, and the reasons for the flood aren't always the same. Indeed, many of the deluge myths cite very real locations that survivors land on, yet aren't ever the same locations for each story.

    Ultimately though, I'm waiting for the entity known as Ass Napkin Ned to make his point. Facts are great. Fire is hot, wheels are round, and water is wet. But facts without a point is silly.
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  8. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    yea but those differences could be explained by the fact that the stories have been retold by different cultures in different languages each with their own unique religious and cultural identity. i'm not saying i think it's a true story, so it doesn't actually matter which mountain they're said to land on or which bird they released and shit like that.

    the sumerian, babylonian, and assryian civilizations have specific gods in common. that much is established. so it's not of a question of whether near-east cultures borrowed motifs and mythical themes from one another, it's just a question of whether we can add the israelites to the list. we know they sat in exile in babylonia while the bible was still being compiled.

    i will have to look into it more before i can form a proper opinion. it just seems too coincidental to me that the israelites would happen to come from the same region as the other myths with which theirs has the most in common.
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  9. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

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    Aye, we none of us live in a vacuum.
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  10. Ass Napkin Ed

    Ass Napkin Ed DC - 19th & Benning Rd

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  11. frankwhite 1

    frankwhite 1 thirteen

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    :funny:

    this bitch is dumb as fuck

    my nigga reggie too nice to tell her straight

    she wants absolute micro-mimicry before accepting the inference that similar stories are multiple accounts of a singular event

    if a nigga cop head off you he finna lose double-digit IQ points

    fuck you type a lot of bullshit without any substance, loquacious hoe

    this bitch wants to use a scientific theory drawing on multiple scientific fields with centuries of data as an analogue to millennia old similar stories from different cultures describing a remarkably unique event; a global deluge delivered by (a) deities (deity). and dismiss it as coincidence like they had fucking cable

    there were no open lines of communication bridging cultural gaps back then, bitch

    i changed my mind. i'd give you this dick just so you could learn something. i'd only stick it in your ass though. that mouth of yours is too dirty

    post a pic, i wanna see if you look as dumb as you sound. you got down syndrome?
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  12. Ass Napkin Ed

    Ass Napkin Ed DC - 19th & Benning Rd

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    :lux3:

    you mean the sumerians didnt use wikipedia, email, and google to compare flood stories with everyone else in the world?
    nice Frank, couldnt have said it better
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  13. frankwhite 1

    frankwhite 1 thirteen

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    this bitch wondering how they stories ain't identical when they coulda just tweeted that shit the moment the waters broke the banks. and niggas across the sahara woulda had all the details up on wikipedia before the sunset

    silly hoe :funny:

    where the fuck did this broad come from? she remind me of a retarded galatea. she must be british
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  14. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

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    I'm actually not doing any of those.

    I'm asking a question.

    Ass Napkin Ned, what is your point?
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  15. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    nah. it seems you think the flood story is real. i disagree with you. it reads like a myth, so it probably is one. i dunno why you think these ancient cultures didn't communicate. several of them shared other myths and several specific gods. that doesn't serve as evidence that enlil is a real diety, lol.

    there might have been some sort of regional flood to inspire it, but really fuckin doubt there was a big boat with tons of different animals on it.
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  16. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    It was a game of telephone played out in babylon
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  17. AliceHouse

    AliceHouse The House Always Wins

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    Still waiting...
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  18. Ass Napkin Ed

    Ass Napkin Ed DC - 19th & Benning Rd

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    Hi Alice
    the point i was making is the Epic of Gilgamesh as well as the Sumerian Tablets are the oldest written texts/clay tablets ever discovered in human history

    The Fact that it mentions Man was created by a council of Gods (Elohim) even uses the word EL or EA
    man was placed in a paradise and was deceived by an opposing God from the Council
    The Fact that Gilgamesh finds a 'flower' that will give him and other humans eternal life but gets taken away by a 'Snake'
    The Fact that it mentions a Global Flood, where the ship sends out doves, rests on a mountain, and man makes an alter dedicated to God for saving his life.

    Looks like Genesis borrowed some key myths from Ancient Sumer
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  19. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Meaning its possible they were the first ones to write about the event.

    they came long after the actual event however.
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  20. Ass Napkin Ed

    Ass Napkin Ed DC - 19th & Benning Rd

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    not true
    their civilization predates Hebrews and the Semitic speaking people.
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