Sellings beats to majors (please only if you have experience)

Discussion in 'Audio Producers Discussions' started by MAD SKREWS, Dec 15, 2007.

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  1. MAD SKREWS

    MAD SKREWS Dear Mr.Toilet, Im Da Shi

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    Does the label usually keep the copyright to your music once you sell it?

    meaning, my copyright would transfer to the label owner or purchaser?

    Any help, appreciated

    Skrews
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  2. ChaseNCashe

    ChaseNCashe If it aint Polo, Keep It!

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    Once they buy it they own it.

    Unless you buy the rights back from them.

    Thats what the "Masters" are.

    All original files to the music.

    Theres no point in getting a beat copyrighted if you don't have anyone on it.

    Especially if you plan on being a producer for a living.
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  3. MAD SKREWS

    MAD SKREWS Dear Mr.Toilet, Im Da Shi

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    So the time to copyright is when the sale occurs?..

    Good look chase
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  4. ChaseNCashe

    ChaseNCashe If it aint Polo, Keep It!

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    No man.

    You're not going to have to copyright if they buying it from you.

    They're going to own the rights. The publishing company will own that shit.
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  5. MAD SKREWS

    MAD SKREWS Dear Mr.Toilet, Im Da Shi

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    Only 50% publishing rights will be given to this label, the remaining 50% are mine under contract. Any difference?
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  6. ChaseNCashe

    ChaseNCashe If it aint Polo, Keep It!

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    They're buying the rights from you. Once they give you the bread for the exclusive agreement either the label or the person paying for it or the pub company, whoever is paying for the beat..will own it. You won't.
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  7. MAD SKREWS

    MAD SKREWS Dear Mr.Toilet, Im Da Shi

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    Now with the label owning the publishing rights, that has nothing to do with royalties correct? Since BMI will track those for me once I submit the final product to BMI letting them know I produced it, correct?
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  8. Phoenix5891

    Phoenix5891 T.S.K.

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    Get a lawyer...
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  9. TuTone

    TuTone Fairfax Entertainment

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    ^Best idea
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  10. the exposer

    the exposer The Music Luvas

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    CHASENCASHE... SKREWS WHO EVER ELSE READING PAY ATTENTION, THIS IS FOR EVERYONES BENEFIT. "YOU TAKE IT AND DO WHAT YOU WANT IT"(SLEEPERS BEST MOVIE EVER) NOW TO GET SERIOUS..

    Masters and publishing are two seperate beast altogether. but have a loving relationship with each other...

    MASTERS

    The Master recording is owned by the person who pays for the beat.. Example.. (JIVE gives JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE 1,500,000 for HISy album to cover all expenses.. producer/studio time/engineer/ cd artwork/sample clearences if any/ photo shoot/ hotel expenses... you get the picture) They own the master cuz they put up the expenses.. Now even tho they paid for everything theres one thing they dont own unless you give it to them Publishing. The move Puffy was made infamous for with The Lox... hence why every album the lox did had S.Combs on the publshing..

    Now heres a way for you talented producers who have talented artist to make some side money.. I'm about to make benfeit of this this january coming when i will begin to lease beats to independant artist on the net and watnot.. Since when you lease a beat you should always retain the master right... What you can begin to due is build your own little catalog of indy artist that due above average work to your tracks.. and shop the songs to TV NETWORKS, CABLE AND MOVIES. what you do to be fair is give the artist 50% of the publishing depending if theres no hook and no sample being used.. Now theres a benefit my people to leasing beats.. For ever i just didnt get leasing good beats on the net there was no point.. But with this method i have realised there is light at the end of the tunnel for leasing besides the short term effects... Now instead of the potnetial of jus making $1000 from leasing that beat 20 times for 50 dollars.. you have a chance with some hustle and connections to makes atleast 2,500 for tv and 5,000 minimum for MOVIE to a track you leased to some kid in the u.k ya DIG....

    SO Master in basic terms is the master recording... The 2inch reels from back in the day to now the 2.5gb session on your cpu... of the song you made by yourself or with the collaboration you made with another artist.. "Who ever owns the masters has the sole right to use the track for whatever purpose they desire.." when you own the master you are always compensated for the use of the master recording you own when being used. " so if J.T. Song (Sexy Back) was used in a Victoria Secret commerical... or a Gillete Razor... So Zomba music group, parent label to jive would get paid for the use of the master recording (IF) they used the song from the album. Notice that (if) cuz if you replay sexy back have someone else sing the record and Victoria secret want to use it.. then they would only have to ask permission from the people who own the PUBLISHING of that record...


    Now for the other most misunderstood topic in here and everywhere Publishing.

    Publishing is divided up into 100% Per Song 50% going to the producer (there are exception i will discuss in a few) and the other 50% going to the Song writer.. if you did both you guessed it you own 100%

    Publishing is totally seperate from Master.... but like i said above they have a loving realtionship Most of the time and here is why.... I will site previous example above JT SEXY BACK... lets say Mad Skrews produced it.. and Chase wrote the record.. now when Victoria Secret submits a request to use the record. Zomba will come back with a price... lets say its negotiated zomba and jive charge 500,000 cuz its for the superbowl event.... They Still have to sumbit a request for a sync fee from to all the publishers involved in that song.... !!!!!Now this is importatnt so listen up!!!!!!!!!
    if you dont have a publishing deal they have to negotiate with YOU cuz YOU own the publshing for that record... if you got a publshing deal they do the negotiating for you.. Now how it works the one who puts in the highest bid is the one that Vicotria Secret has to Honor... (Now before you SUBMIT 99% of the time you get together with the other publisher to go over the price so you both are on the same page.. after all no one wants to not make money so you guys dont wanna over shoot.. the good publshing company that have struck deal like it before already got the ballpark of where it should be.. aswell as V.S. consultants advised them aswell roughly what it should cost...) phewwwww now that you know that you send in the bid its agreed for this sync fee 500,000 is fare aswell... (this tends to happen when i placed 4 songs that i owned the masters to on "ILLEGAL TENDER" movie the publshing was paid the exact amount for the sync fees.) Now how that 500gs breaks up is in the percentage of song... skrews owns 50% so 250gs is due to him and chase owns 50% so 250gs is owed to him aswell...

    So in this case both the people who owned the masters and the publshing got paid...

    Now another important note "WHY I ALWAYS STRESS OWNING YOUR PUBLSHING ATLEAST SOME OF IT."

    Back to the EXAMPLE... Victoria Secret DONT WANNA GO THRU ZOMBA... PDOT NIX jus made a remix thats insane..... They went to his pmp site asked if he can remake the beat and have his freind DION Primo ON THE RECORD... They come thru big V.S loves it offers them 25GS THEY TAKE IT....

    ITS SUPERBOWL NITE THEY WANNA DEBUT THERE NEW BRAS AND MODELS USING THAT REMIX... GUESS WHO GETS PAID... The people who own the PUBLISHING to that record. not the people own the masters... becuase you are not using there MASTER RECORDING.. they are using the Composition to the song which Skrews and CHASE would own... Thats Publshing and wat publshing is for its to protect the composers of the record and make sure there work is compensated... AFTER ALL WE MAKE THE RECORDS ITS OUR GENIOUS THAT MAKES IT POSSIBLE.. Toyota has to pay 500gs to the publsher of that record... Nix and Dion get no pub cuz its a remix... doesnt matter if its completely original or a complet cover better known as interpolation...


    I JUS GAVE UP 1 HOUR OF MY LIFE CUZ UNLIKE SOME HERE I DONT TYPE 5000 WORDS A SECOND.. IF ANY OF YALL IN THIS THREAD WOULD LIKE TO TALK FURTHER ON IT PM ME AND I WILL MAKE MY NUMBER AVAILABLE TO THOSE I SEE FIT TO GIVE IT TOO.. I went thru this less than a month ago with Thirsten Howl 3rd for a record i did with him on the Illegal Tender movie Marijuanerra... He thought cuz he wrote 50% of the song he owned 50% of the masters and thats not the case.... He never paid me for the track and thought he was entitled to money i got for the master on the movie.... he didnt even understand the game and he vet to a degree... so take this shit as a JEWEL....
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  11. slvicick

    slvicick New Member

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  12. Mellow Madness

    Mellow Madness aKa sTaTiK

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    get beatjacked
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  13. P R I M O

    P R I M O Shout out to Autotune

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    Yeah this is a good post.
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  14. JaMarcus Cock Sucker

    JaMarcus Cock Sucker BOSS

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    yep basically what mucka said....

    u as a producer will always be entitled to ATLEAST 50% publishing, no questions asked........masters aint got jack shit to do with that......
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  15. SamSneed

    SamSneed TrackWorks

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    very informative post.

    i want to add my two cents.

    i think where alot of people get confused is in the whole beat maker vs producer thing.

    everybody here probably thinks they are a producer and probably assumes that in a contract with an major industry entity they would get the standard producer entitlements.

    reality check:

    unless your signing or have signed a production deal with an artist or label, the industry will most likely treat you like a musical composer. basically what you will be doing is signing work for hire contracts for your musical compositions (beats). In hiphop, alot of producers make the beats too, but if they dont (which is plently of them), they will subcontract the musical composition out, and its almost always a work for hire contact. basically the composer signs over all rights to the contractor, and is entitled to nothing unless its specifically stated in the contract...this includes up front money, mechanical royalties and publishing.

    so the point is, if you dealing with a major, understand that you will most likely be treated as a musical composer, and if you are, you will most likely have to negotiate for any publishing with the producer of the track, because any publishing you get(and mechanical royalties and up front money, and really anything you get) will be out of his pocket.
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  16. JaMarcus Cock Sucker

    JaMarcus Cock Sucker BOSS

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    yea welll, if ur an idiot then u will allow a label to treat u that way

    and what u described is more of a scenario when ur working with a sub-publishing company more than anything.
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  17. SamSneed

    SamSneed TrackWorks

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    well the point i was trying to make was that it depends on your selling it to.

    if your selling to a label or producer (in the traditional sense), you are always going to be treated as a composer and its almost always going to be a work for hire where you will have to negotiate for everything.

    if your selling directly to an artist, then you should be making him/her sign a production deal.

    more often then not, if your a nobody in the industry and have an opportunity to place a beat on a major project, you will almost always be treated as a composer. Unless you have a personal relation ship with somebody thats working on the project.

    if your a nobody in the industry, you have a good chance of being treated like a producer on smaller budget and independent projects, and i would agree, you would be an idiot not to get a production deal done in these cases.
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  18. MAD SKREWS

    MAD SKREWS Dear Mr.Toilet, Im Da Shi

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    I can agree with you SamSneed, the work for hire has appeared in a few of the contracts for indi's that i've done..
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  19. I-ki

    I-ki New Member

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    great post mucka... im still a lil confused, though....

    So publishing is what makes the producer/writer the money for making the beat. So what is the purpose for record labels when they buy the copyrights from producers and writers?. Can record labels buy part if not 100% of the publishing?
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  20. the exposer

    the exposer The Music Luvas

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    The record labels make there money off of records sales.... thats why things are so bad rite now... they might see


    !!!!!!!!The only time you do a work for hire is if you do a remix for another song it has to be like that cuz of copyright laws..... Or you a musician brought in to lace up a record either gtr...bass... piano...strings wateva... you pay the money and they sign the work for hire so they give up rites to their publishing....



    I think you got confused cuz of SamSneed remarks wich are not acurate.... I Repeat There is absolutely no reason for you to give up all your publshing... the only time you give up some of your publshing is when you sign up to a publshing deal and its usually 50/50 or 75/25 depending on lawyer/ status/ and catalog. But the trade off with bigger publishing company's like Universal or Warner chappel is they have allo of connects for your work to go so extra money can be made.... like movies and tv which both of those companies have access and interest in.... Cherry lane/ jellybean and other companies ahve more music connects and still able to get other moves happening and these companies are good aswell...

    when you sign a puublishing deal its usually for 3-10 songs at 100%.. so wat that means if you sing a 3 song deal and you only produce music.. then you would have to place 6 songs on major albums. or tip tier indys.. for the placements to count.. i say 6 songs cuz 50% x 6 gives you 3 songs 300%... if you have a partner like i did my cut was 25% so in my case at the time i have to due 12 songs to completey my 3 song requirement for 3 years... so in total i have to deliver 9 songs... or 20 songs that total up 900%.. you guys following...

    Theres is also the option of jus stricking and Administration Publshing deal. which woud jus allow them a 5% to 2.5% fee for collects and keeping track fo your royalties.. some people tend to like this but most take the upfront money and allow the publshing company the burden negotiating placemts on commericals, tc and movies.. cuz lawyer fees can get ugly if you dont have someone looking out for you....


    Those work for hires a sucker test..... if the people around you aint looking out you can fall for it.. I repeat there is no real reason for you to give up all your publshing if you produced the record. i have give in 15% more to The Clutch for writing to a record i did for Crystal....
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