Science and morality

Discussion in 'The Alley' started by KOzS, Sep 1, 2013.

  1. KOzS

    KOzS .Juster

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    http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-moral-landscape-challenge1

    This is for those who can coherently argue. A thousand words to refute the central argument of Sam Harris' The Moral Landscape. Best response gets $1000, or $10,000 if you actually change Harris' mind.

    BUT WAIT! A generous reader has just doubled Harris' initial offer, so now it's $2000 for the best response, and $20,000 if you change only Harris' mind.

    I'm willing to collaborate. But would love to read responses.


    If you don't want to buy the book (I'm sure that's why he's doing this), then a few of Harris' talks about this book are on youtube.

    Deadline: Feb

    I'll probably throw my two cents in. Thousand words, thousand dollars. Worth a shot, since I have until February. I just hate it because I don't disagree with him.



    Update: He just added a FAQ section, found in the link above.
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
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  2. Joro DiGiorno

    Joro DiGiorno Active Member

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    So what is the central thesis of the book? Give me the coles notes
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  3. J Keeper

    J Keeper Super Jesus

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    I would hafta read the whole book to properly form a counter-argument.

    I just watched his TED talk, he uses pretty obvious moral dilemmas but doesn't seem touch on ambiguous morality.

    And he speaks of the connection between the conscious mind and morality, then goes on to say the moral value of a creature is dependent on biological complexity? Which is it? Is it both?

    Yea, I'd hafta read the damn book.
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  4. KOzS

    KOzS .Juster

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    You've already begun to dispute some of the peripheral arguments. Remember, you don't have to read anything, you just need to understand the central argument, then write about that. It's only a thousand words, you wouldn't have room to touch on the peripherals.

    However, I'm sure the book is downloadable.
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  5. KOzS

    KOzS .Juster

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    Here, he just posted this in the FAQ section:

    "1. You have said that these essays must attack the “central argument” of your book. What do you consider that to be?

    Here it is: Morality and values depend on the existence of conscious minds—and specifically on the fact that such minds can experience various forms of well-being and suffering in this universe. Conscious minds and their states are natural phenomena, fully constrained by the laws of Nature (whatever these turn out to be in the end). Therefore, there must be right and wrong answers to questions of morality and values that potentially fall within the purview of science. On this view, some people and cultures will be right (to a greater or lesser degree), and some will be wrong, with respect to what they deem important in life."

    That's the extent of the mandatory reading.
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  6. J Keeper

    J Keeper Super Jesus

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    Just so I have this clear, he's saying that conscious mind are constrained by the laws of nature, which in parenthesis he alludes to an ignorance towards all its properties, then proceeds to cite these laws which we do not fully understand as a basis for the absolution of moral ambiguity?

    How the hell can someone attack that? It's attacking a maybe. It's trying to disprove an argument that admittedly can't be proven.
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  7. Joro DiGiorno

    Joro DiGiorno Active Member

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    Such lovely cultivated bullshit.

    He's challenging people to convince him of their faith, knowing that faith can't be proved (which is why it's faith) ... And since faith can't be proved, then [man-made] science is god, and if [man-made] science is god then [man-made] science governs morality. And if [man-made] science governs morality, then men can scientifically prove their superiority to other men.

    gtfoh
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  8. KOzS

    KOzS .Juster

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    You can do it, I believe in you!
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  9. Joro DiGiorno

    Joro DiGiorno Active Member

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    Scientifically prove that you believe in me. Then scientifically prove why you believe in me. Then scientifically prove why you believe in my ability to tell you wrong from right more than your own ability to decide what is wrong from right on your own with your "conscious mind." ....LOL
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2013
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  10. Superman70

    Superman70 edited

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    Edit.

    I will read this faq page, that may answer my question.
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  11. Superman70

    Superman70 edited

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    O snap he went in on deepak chopra :CPnoooo:
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  12. Joro DiGiorno

    Joro DiGiorno Active Member

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    :sohumble::comeoneson:
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  13. KOzS

    KOzS .Juster

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    Haha, yeah Chopra gets it the worst, but I think they're all friends. I remember Chopra and Michael Shermer saying they were friends, despite the heated debates.
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  14. KOzS

    KOzS .Juster

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    You can do it, I believe in you!

    Sorry, that earlier post was for you.
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  15. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    chopra is my friend too
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  16. L u c y

    L u c y (Administrator) SWERVE

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    "This is for those who can coherently argue"

    counts me out, posted to subscribe to thread.
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  17. IssphitiKOzS

    IssphitiKOzS Avalanche

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    Shut up joro

    It's a measly thousand words, stop crying.
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  18. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    Might give it a go..
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  19. billy nomates.

    billy nomates. rain cancels play.

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    no you won't.
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  20. x calibur

    x calibur

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    I would take this on, but I basically agree with him.
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