Ron Paul 20-NEVER

Discussion in 'Overtime: Off-Topic Discussion' started by reznick, Jun 14, 2011.

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  1. Eyerate

    Eyerate The Definition of Real..

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    what are the odds of the minnesotta timberwolves winning the nba finals in 2015... its too early in the game to even theorycraft this shit...

    on his policies and his change in approach to "are you fucking stupid?" this go around, id say hes got a 50% chance of the republican nomination, especially considering chinas recent rumblings about the US defaulting on our debt.

    a few more debates and you dickheads might start singing a different tune.
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  2. FINALPOST

    FINALPOST New Member

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    If by some crazy way Ron Paul gets the Republican nation Obama will just

    [​IMG]

    IN CELEBRATION OF 4 MORE YEARS
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  3. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    This isn't mechanical economics it's common sense.


    What do you really think happens without TARP? The big banks fail, and everything else is happy and dandy, the economy becomes healthy again, and we build flower shops over in place of the old banks? Are you a fucking idiot?

    Big banks support big banks worldwide, which also support big businesses and smaller banks. Those same banks also support the small businesses, private schools, and privately owned hospitals. And many of those businesses support each other. This entire web of relationships crumbles when the supporting foundation collapses.

    Then without anywhere to work because everything gets shut down, everything goes to shit. Theres no jobs for anyone, making businesses debating this outcome, because it's a very simple idea.

    And then what do you get? The entire private sector being fucked in the ass, while government owned entities stay alive and well. A huge percentage of the population in bread lines living on the streets while government officials ride around in limos and live in their mansions with a massive police and military force in their hand.

    Yea, great fucking plan, now get your head out of your ass, and present your argument with logic and common sense. My prior lack of knowledge of the inner mechanics of the recession has very little to do with you being 100% wrong here. My logic stands firm, while your counter logic will be a few swear words followed by my boy, :funny: , and perhaps a body slam or two


    :winning:
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  4. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    And FinalPost has been 100% correct about everything he has said. Have no idea how he came to the conclusions and what his logic and reasoning is, but he is most certainly correct.
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  5. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    [​IMG]
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  6. tyronehouston

    tyronehouston Well-Known Member

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    Reznick, look you are probably right that we would've went into a great depression...but I will contend that all TARP did was delay it....and we are going to go in a depression anyways. At least when the economy collapses we can hopefully build it back the right why instead of have this current fake ponzi scheme economy that wall street and the fed have created.

    And had it failed in 08 at least we would have let companies that should have fell due to bad business choices (unhealthy) then continue to prop up bad companies like them and the American Auto Industry and think they are going to be competitive healthy run companies. It would have cleared the door for some small innovative investment banks or small innovative auto company to take the reigns and get a chance to be top dog in their market. That's true capitalism......nothing what we have right now.
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  7. Eyerate

    Eyerate The Definition of Real..

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    thats ALMOST the smartest thing you've ever said.. except its retarded, because the foundation is the DOLLAR. and in the name of saving the useless banks we TANKED the dollar and the entire economy is near irreparably fucked because of it.

    you admittedly know nothing of market mechanics yet you think you can somehow use basic stoner/hippie logic to determine the complex course of events post major market reset.. brilliant.
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  8. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    TARP was never going to turn the economy around, it was an emergency bill passed to avoid disastrous impacts that would make today's world seem like paradise.



    Imagine a small boat occupied by 10 of us. Eyerate is wealthy, 6 of us are middle class, and three of us are poor. Now imagine our boat had a leak, and we could tell that it would not keep us afloat for long. If this boat sinks, we could create a new boat using the same parts, but the 3 of us who are poor and malnourished will not survive the transition. Eyerate, the wealthy 10%, would be laying back on the one good chunk of boat that was still afloat, sun tanning, while the 6 of us in the middle class reconstruct the boat around him in the freezing cold water. Once in a while he may toss a grape in your mouth, but thats it. Once the boat is reconstructed, we are all malnourished and fatigued from constructing, and Eyerate will be steering the boat with a big smile on his face.


    Now bring it back to real life. This is what Eyerate is advocating. The world going to shit (not just usa) while the wealthy 1% of the planet just basically profits from their suffering. And his justification is that it's "their fault, survival of the fittest, alpha male lolz".


    So why not side with the people looking out for the interest of the average human being on the planet, opposed the small percentage of elite rich who will survive the collapse? Even if you are very wealthy and rich, your still not completely safe depending on the circumstances, so even they don't buy into this ludicrous idea of allowing such a thing to happen.





    "It would have cleared the door for some small innovative investment banks or small innovative auto company to take the reigns and get a chance to be top dog in their market. "

    No, the market is already clear for them. A govt bailout does not influence a consumers choice.


    Besides what makes more sense to you, a company thriving because they outdid the competition, or a company thriving because a big bulldozer smashed the competition to pieces. The bailed out companies were not all doing bad business at all. These are only a select group of companies who could have done a lot better. Many of them were on the verge of failing due to the circumstances surrounding the overall economy, not because they were getting outdone by the competition. Cmon
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  9. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    No. The implications is on a world wide scale, everyone gets hurt, not just the US dollar. Your logic sucks again


    Those "Useless" banks are more useful to you than you give them credit for. Without them your favorite businesses close. Your such a dumbass that you don't even realize that if it's not big banks financing big companies, it would be the government.

    Unless you want to see the end of:
    Apple
    Microsoft
    Google
    etc


    Private investors only have so much money, such high interest rates, and can only dedicate their resources to a limited number of projects. If Bill Gates started funding companies left and right, he would need to hire people to keep up with the companies and investments and.....wait a minute...... its a bank!




    I never said anything about market mechanics, I referred to the inner mechanics of the economics of the recession. Lil Wayne has an excellent grasp of the music market. Does that mean he needs to know the specifics of sub prime mortgages to understand that without proper financing he cannot run a music label? This is simple common sense, no matter how much you try to muddy things up.
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  10. FINALPOST

    FINALPOST New Member

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    Watching the 3 of you talk economics is interesting to say the least. But let me get this straight Tyronehouston you believe the government should have let the banks fail? Explain why please? with that please explain how that would have helped the country and help foster American ingenuity

    You might want to touch on the oversight in this as well

    Please dont talk about the auto industry that is a whole different convo
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  11. Eyerate

    Eyerate The Definition of Real..

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    can anyone read either of those reznick posts without facepalming hard as fuck? this kid truely believes this shit.. i mean he REALLY thinks the banks have crippling holds on fortune 500 corps like google... i cant fathom how one wastes the time of so many brilliant individuals explaining rudimentary economics and still hasnt the slightest idea of what the financial landscape is in this country.

    "if bill gates invests in a bunch of businesses and hires management teams, ITS A BANK!" :funny: goddamn, i gotta stop bothering with these threads.
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  12. Eyerate

    Eyerate The Definition of Real..

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    the auto industry is NOT a different convo.. mismanaged corporations fail.. auto, financial, service, travel, whatever.. we bailed out the banks and the auto manufacturers on the same bill because it was the exact same issue, therefore the exact same convo.

    you pro-tarp kids dont even know what you're arguing... you dont get to come in an ask vague questions, make a point to be countered. instead of asking us to waste a ton of keystrokes trying to educate you on why tarp was a terrible idea and will be noted in bold when the story of the end of this countries dominance is written, tell us why it was the RIGHT move.
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  13. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    Of course those those three companies need the banks, are you serious?

    They all rely on innovation and massive relationships with smaller companies who cannot get financed and started up without banks. Not to mention they handle all the money. Theres a reason those companies use banks, rather than Scrooge McDuck Vaults of gold.


    Bill Gates was a bad analogy but is true to the loaning element of banks
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  14. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    no


    the auto industry did not get bailed out because the domestic competition was kicking its ass. The government didnt sense new auto companies in the US on the rise, and say "ah ah ah....I dont think so."

    The economy is what fucked the companies up, not competition. And our domestic automobile manufacturers is one of our most important economic sectors.
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  15. Eyerate

    Eyerate The Definition of Real..

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    none of those companies "need" banks for anything :funny:

    and there is a reason they USE banks.. because its easier. you're done on this topic. you really dont know shit. go ask your friend to explain it to you or something.
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  16. tyronehouston

    tyronehouston Well-Known Member

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    First let me tell you why TARP was a huge failure.

    1. It did not get credit flowing back into the economy - one of the main reasons the economic recovery has been so slow is because start-ups have not been able to get the loans they need to start-up and create jobs.

    Banks used the money to acquire other companies, pay down their debt, and horde cash.

    2. TARP did not ended the foreclosure crisis

    3. TARP was supposed to end Too-Big-To-Fail - not only that but it has made it worse, because the big banks are now 20% larger than they were before the crisis.

    Banks that received TARP has spent $114 million on lobbying and campaign contributions. Banks that received bailout money had compensated their top executives nearly $1.6 billion in 2007, including salaries, cash bonuses, stock options, and benefits including personal use of company jets and chauffeurs, home security, country club memberships, and professional money management.

    So the answer is quite simple, Washington provided corporate welfare to folks that contributed most to their campaigns. Corruption at it's finest.

    And what's worse they used our money to bail them out and what's worse than that it's money we don't even have (we just borrow it and create it out of thin air) :funny::funny::funny:

    The assumption I get from Reznick and FinalPost is that because of the bailout the recovery is on its way.

    I'm of the mind that the cause of this fiasco is still out there and nothing has been solved.

    Because of the bailout we dug ourselves a deeper whole and it will look even uglier when our house of cards economy crashes.
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  17. Eyerate

    Eyerate The Definition of Real..

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    entire post is wrong. literally, the entire post.
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  18. Eyerate

    Eyerate The Definition of Real..

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    all of this is going to be ignored/bastardized by the next idiot who posts, guaranteed.
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  19. tyronehouston

    tyronehouston Well-Known Member

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    If the Big Three automakers were liquidated or completely shut down, foreign companies such as Honda and Toyota would open up new manufacturing plants in the U.S., and there would have probably been no long term loss in employment or damage to the economy.

    Although those big iconic corporations failing would have been ugly for the USA, it is much better than artificially keeping it alive without a prospect of improvement.

    South Korea and Japan have already been through this:

    "The Daewoo Group's proportionate economic impact on Korea was larger than that of the Big Three to the United States. The persistence of the belief that Daewoo and other Korean conglomerates were too big to fail led many bankers and investors to continually waste money on bailouts, despite their poor business plans and unprofitable projects, as Daewoo was unable to repay these loans. Once the too-big-to-fail perception was dispelled, with large conglomerates no longer considered the safest investments, bankers and investors began financing new opportunities in areas which had been starved of capital (small firms, entrepreneurs and consumers), while Korea's GDP actually rose after Daewoo's unwinding."

    "The same can be said about Japan during its Lost Decade of the 1990s, where banks kept injecting new funds into unprofitable "zombie firms" to keep them afloat, arguing that they were too big to fail. However, most of these companies were too debt-ridden to do much more than survive on further bailouts, which led to an economist describing Japan as a "loser's paradise.""

    Japan's economy did not begin to recover until this practice had ended.
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  20. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    "The assumption I get from Reznick and FinalPost is that because of the bailout the recovery is on its way."


    "Because of the bailout we dug ourselves a deeper whole and it will look even uglier when our house of cards economy crashes."


    No, it going to look bad period. Lives will be lost or destroyed regardless. And while you encourage this to happen head on, they are trying to see if they can solve it. Which they can.

    We are a capitalistic government, and like all businesses or businesses men, your in debt sometimes. It's not a hole you cannot dig yourself out of, and just because you guys cannot figure a solution it doesn't mean there isn't one.

    And while your too busy trying to be "right", even though anyone with any position in Washington knows 10x better than you how bad the economy is and specifics behind it, they're too busy finding a solution rather than letting everything go to shit in the name of sacred pure and holy capitalism.
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