Ron Paul 20-NEVER

Discussion in 'Overtime: Off-Topic Discussion' started by reznick, Jun 14, 2011.

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  1. SiFu

    SiFu Burning Down Babylon!

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    Whatever country/government gets this super tech first, will work its damnest to not let any others get it....they wont give it away and its not like there are many countries capable of creating this super tech, china are biters not writers namean!!!


    We will intergrate with technology and SOME people will have great benefit, maybe I'll be one of those people who knows....


    But human nature wont change....for a long long time and that change will come not from technology but from our own psychology


    Thats a difference of opinion.....


    When it comes to psychological aspect all transhumanists say "technology will one day solve that for us" because none of them have any idea or inkling what it would take and are hoping a computer will figure it out, that sounds incredibly crazy to me....


    PEACE
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  2. Eyerate

    Eyerate The Definition of Real..

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    "Whoever sides with technology will win. It's survival 101. No government will try to halt it, in fears that other countries will not follow suit, and how much power that could give them."

    wow. :funny:
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  3. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    Cool last word bro

    Sifu I'll respond when I leave school


    Sent from my iPhone 9 in 2024
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  4. MindTaker

    MindTaker GFY

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    Does reznick just worship Gene Roddenberry or what?
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  5. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    "Whatever country/government gets this super tech first, will work its damnest to not let any others get it....they wont give it away and its not like there are many countries capable of creating this super tech, china are biters not writers namean!!!"


    Well there's no telling, but I don't find it likely. There will be numerous steps before everything improves. It will start to happen faster and faster, but we're still talking day to day policies, news coverage, public opinion, and all of that. We won't go from this, to super tech overnight. People are going to be aware soon that technology is exploding, and I highly doubt that one government will keep it from the entire world. The only way I see this happening, is if the world agreed to halt technology, which will never happen, because terrorist won't give a shit. And much of this society altering growth comes from consumer based products.



    "We will intergrate with technology and SOME people will have great benefit, maybe I'll be one of those people who knows...."

    Okay, so you get an awesome new hypothetical high tech computing suit, that enables you to do insane out of this world shit. And then you will buy a new model in a few years, and a newer one in a few years, and if the technology is still relevant, this cycle will continue. Eventually, over time, the first models will be worthless junk, basically up for grabs, for any poor person to have.


    "But human nature wont change....for a long long time and that change will come not from technology but from our own psychology"

    There are a lot of factors that affect society. Many sociologists have dedicated lifetimes just studying how one aspect of life, like economy, effects societies. So there is never one thing, as all these aspects compliment each other, and work off each other to change societies.



    Psychology does change with technology. There are cameras everywhere in urban areas. I think you can say that changes the psychology of crime. Please don't say whether it increased or decreased...the psychology has changed.
    Cell phones change the way we think of others, and keep track of things.
    Before the automobile, most people never been 25 miles away from their homes for their entire life.

    I personally think science is the biggest factor in change, when talking sociology. Thats my opinion.




    "When it comes to psychological aspect all transhumanists say "technology will one day solve that for us" because none of them have any idea or inkling what it would take and are hoping a computer will figure it out, that sounds incredibly crazy to me...."


    You have to be way more specific. Questions don't just get answered by "machines will solve it for us." If these are the answers your getting, your talking or listening to the wrong people. You you mean crime? Class? Race? Internal psychology? Emotion? You have to be more specific.




    As for computers solving things for us, don't you use a calculator, google, and email?
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  6. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    star trek? fuck watching that

    never have, never will
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  7. MindTaker

    MindTaker GFY

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    Really? 'Cause that seems to be where you get your idea of this utopia in the future where everyone is on equal footing and gets w/e they need and iPhones are going to be tri-corders and shit. It's that same kind of hippy dippy commy bullshit that Roddenberry was pushing for that's never going to happen.
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  8. SiFu

    SiFu Burning Down Babylon!

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    computers only solve what we program them to solve...

    no computer just turns on and solves math problems...a HUMAN has to program exactly what steps the computer needs to take, if he misses or makes a mistake in any part of the step, the answer will be wrong....


    Computers save time because they 'run thru the motions' quicker than us, but no computer is able to observe nature and then figure out its physics....


    And that first one that can, will take some amazing genius type of guy to program it....


    What incentive is there for America to let China have access to its military technology?? What lengths are Apple and others going to protect their tech in China and other places??


    Technology is a commodity not a right....its to be sold not given away...the government that creates some super cell battery that can power your house for year, WILL sell those units abroad, but they WILL NOT give the technology away....



    hopefully '2045' isnt looking like the start date of utopia anymore lol


    PEACE
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  9. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    The PR-2 can roam around a building on its own, find an electrical socket, and plug their own cords themselves. It can also LEARN. Which is a pretty big step.

    Video: 'PR2 Playpen' Keeps Robots Entertained (and Learning) For Hours and Hours | Popular Science


    A human only has to program it right now. But machines building machines is not a crazy idea to me, call me crazy.

    If the argument is where did the nature of technology begin, than it began, and only survived, and is only alive today, because of biological life. It is a pretty interesting, yet seemingly simple, idea. hmm



    "Computers save time because they 'run thru the motions' quicker than us, but no computer is able to observe nature and then figure out its physics...."

    In what nature? You mean like a robot sitting on a grassy field studying nature? This is not exactly a crazy idea. You can argue that the PR2 does that on a certain level, since it creates 3d images of what it sees, and analyzes what it observes. It is also constantly using physics to detect it's surroundings. And we only in 2011 baby.





    "What incentive is there for America to let China have access to its military technology?? What lengths are Apple and others going to protect their tech in China and other places??"


    They would never simply hand it over, unless there is for some reason, a very close alliance between the two nations in the future.

    China will come about achieving it the same we do. Either buy the technology from IBM, or whomever is producing it. It won't me some mad scientist who figures out the next step, at least I don't think that is the case for every new IBM tech upgrade. There will be no super "Aha!" moment. It will be something we see coming miles and miles ahead.



    "Technology is a commodity not a right"

    Not according to the United Nations:
    The U.N. Declares Internet Access a Human Right - Technology - The Atlantic Wire


    "its to be sold not given away"

    How do you sell the internet?
    Companies create internet accessible devices. But who owns the internet?




    "hopefully '2045' isnt looking like the start date of utopia anymore lol"

    No Utopia. Singularity. And I dont follow that strict date bullshit, if it happens in 2045, cool. If not, it wont be off by more than ten years up or down.


    I do think in this century there will no longer be poverty, and that major shifts towards equality in power will begin to really have an effect.
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  10. MindTaker

    MindTaker GFY

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    You pay for internet access don't you? Wait. Don't answer that because you're going to say "Durr muh college givz teh free interbutts." The thing is though that those interbutts aren't free. Your college is paying for it. No, nobody owns the internet but unless you're going to pay for access and the device(s) needed for access you're not going to doing shit with it. It's like an amusement park ride. Sure, you don't pay to ride the roller coaster but you're going to pay to get in to the park where the roller coaster is.


    Also, there will always be poverty in some form. Always.
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  11. SiFu

    SiFu Burning Down Babylon!

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    I was gonna say that the Internet is the perfect 'against' argument there is....


    Remember how open and free it was?? before ISP's?? When you just plugged your phone into a modem, called a number and was connected?? (you payed for the phone line of course)....


    Look at it now...you cant do this you cant do that, they are coming with more regulations and more rules and are trying to get us to sign with a passport number and track our movements etc etc


    It went from a completely freeing medium to all of a sudden something that needs to be controlled...


    And this is the metaphor for all technology....it maybe good and it maybe great but no Government is just going to let ANY tech run wild without being regulated and controlled, and this means not giving it to everyone for free...


    why would they give China technology?? why does the world have to agree to not make tech anymore??

    Why cant it be that America creates a small battery that will power your house for a year and turns around and says fuck you china you aint getting shit?? Why would America share that with Africa?? because its good?

    because tech moves fast tech becomes older faster, yes thats correct, so developing countries can purchase OBSOLETE tech for cheap...wonderful...but how does that close the gap of inequality??


    How will it go from "we have the new stuff you have the old stuff" to "we all have the new stuff and we are all happy"???


    That change doesnt happen....it keeps going with those that can have the new new and those that cant, and there is no incentive for those that can get the new new to GIVE it to those cant afford it....."I worked hard for mine they should work hard for theirs" will still hold true in peoples minds just coz they got a super suit they arent gonna suddenly think everyone should have one lol


    So there will always be a split.....


    Unless...psychologically we develop to a point where we arent selfish anymore, and our WHOLE society and values and morals have changed, thats the way its gonna be....


    PEACE
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  12. Eyerate

    Eyerate The Definition of Real..

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    that internet argument is fucking GREAT. look at the net 2.0 push and all the INSANE legislation they're pushing through to regulate. CALEA bump, patriot act provisions, RIAA, MPAA, etc.

    lmao @ "governments wont fight technology"..
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  13. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    You can build your own ISP you know

    How to be an ISP: Build your own hot spot - CNET Reviews





    "why would they give China technology?? why does the world have to agree to not make tech anymore??"

    Are you reading my posts? Whose 'giving' it to China? You mean IBM? Because IBM is already in China...





    "why does the world have to agree to not make tech anymore??"


    Do you really think every human would adhere to this rule? It will not be halted imo, unless there is control over the development of the growth. Which there is none. The 1999 version of you would probably never believe Wikileaks would be able to fly, had you had the same sentiments you do today.



    "Why cant it be that America creates a small battery that will power your house for a year and turns around and says fuck you china you aint getting shit?? Why would America share that with Africa?? because its good?"


    Because it will take days to dissect that technology and recreate it.




    "How will it go from "we have the new stuff you have the old stuff" to "we all have the new stuff and we are all happy"???"


    Because eventually, imo, technology will close the gap in accessibility to these advances.

    Take the Chromebook (as a very loose example). If Chromebooks, or the idea of self improving internet browsing cloud devices takes off, than a poor person in Africa would only be one software update away from having what you have, given you don't upgrade your hardware for say 10 years. Self improving devices need less hardware exchange than computers/laptops which begin degrading the moment you press the power button for the first time.


    That could be completely false, and never happen. Maybe something more innovative than a self improving computer will take off or be the norm. However there are many different reasons why the gap will eventually close, imo.



    As basic needs like food, water, health and safety become more and more common for the average person, they will have more and more time to integrate themselves with staying with the curve.


    This has been happening for the past few hundred years. They only real dent anything has put on this world wide overall growth to better quality of life, is the AIDs epidemic in Africa. Not even the Depression, or the wars created such a travesty.


    I'm not making this up, the numbers are here for you to check yourself.

    Gapminder: Unveiling the beauty of statistics for a fact based world view. - Gapminder.org


    Simulate the first one they up for you (Health & Wealth of Nations) for the past 200 years. Let it go slow, and think about all the events that are happening during this inclination.
    Then watch what happens as Africa gets fucked because of disease and illness.




    "That change doesnt happen....it keeps going with those that can have the new new and those that cant, and there is no incentive for those that can get the new new to GIVE it to those cant afford it....."I worked hard for mine they should work hard for theirs" will still hold true in peoples minds just coz they got a super suit they arent gonna suddenly think everyone should have one lol"


    Now keep in mind I don't expect equality the way we are talking about it, to happen for at least another 100-200 years. Maybe 300 for complete equality.


    However people of power have less and less control over populations, and what they can and cannot have access to. I was listening to the radio on the way to work today, and heard this guy talking about how when he was a kid, there were only a certain amount of programs on TV, at certain times. And that whenever a big event happened on TV, the kids would go to school the next day to talk about the new toys in the commercials they saw. Thats not the case today, for obvious reasons (youtube, channels). Today, if Sony says something wrong, they will get fucked in the ass by hackers. In a way, some companies have become the people's bitch, rather than the other way around. Even the US Senate and CIA public sites hacked in one week. You can't just be a belligerent tyrannical person/government/company anymore with the same safety and assurance as you could 20-30 years ago.

    So I most definitely do see the gap closing before my eyes between the powerful and the powerless. It's small steps like these that have big implications, that bring us closer to that moment.





    "Unless...psychologically we develop to a point where we arent selfish anymore, and our WHOLE society and values and morals have changed, thats the way its gonna be...."

    I believe it will.


    I believe once society realizes their brains are not mystical, and could be reengineered, it will be a huge step towards selflessness. The way the discovery of the vastness of the universe gave society a less "being under the watchful eye of God" feeling.



    This equality talk however stems from my own interpretation of trends and what is to come.
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  14. MindTaker

    MindTaker GFY

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    Imagine the big brother/nanny state they're going to be able to run with everyone tied into the the internet pretty much everywhere they go now. It'll be easy as fuck to run and finance once they start taxing internet access.
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  15. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    Links please
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  16. reznick

    reznick New Member

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  17. reznick

    reznick New Member

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  18. Eyerate

    Eyerate The Definition of Real..

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    no. just no. stopped reading right there. you're an idiot. "this is how you become an ISP.. first, get a wireless router and pay an ISP For a line.." :funny:

    you're such a jerkoff.. its a massive waste of time even conversing with you. you need to thank everyone whos ever typed a somewhat detailed response, because you're getting free education left and right.
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  19. chrishansen

    chrishansen Well-Known Member

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    just look at what they did to online poker reznick unless the technology can also be heavily taxed and pay for congress to eat pappadeaux's steak and shrimp at luncheons they ain't fucking wid it
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  20. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    oops, 1 bad link of like the hundred I posted in this thread. Im sorry :(

    As the main point still stands, nobody owns the internet.





    Thanks again for ignoring every single dumb thing you have said in this thread, that you also ignored, once it made you look like a dumbass. Meanwhile I will happily address the few minor mistakes I make in my argument that never deters the core idea of the subject.
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