Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Mcg-, Sep 24, 2009.
A nice song with a good video. Enjoy
so it can be either or, interesting how in your 4 possible situations its never the case that the group/person in power is also Right. they are either delusional or realists who impose morality.
What about if an oppressed person/persons who believe in the fourth scenario you outlined - that they beleive their cause of justice and freedom is upheld by a higher authority than the oppressor which will inevitably reveal itself plainly - rises to power. That is, if an opressed person who beleives that right is might comes to power through their own beleifs that right is might - does the former opressor having come to power then necessarily become diluded?
So if an oppressed person rightly believes right is might comes to power, right is no longer might?
I believe what we're discussing is the nature of power. You are looking for a universal rule whereas I'm saying it's all relative.
If we want to find a universal, there's two things we can do. We can analyze history and we can analyze our own lives and experience.
Did the European slave traders believe they were right? Yes. They believed God and the laws of nature were on their side. The Africans had other ideas tho. Did Hitler believe he was righteous? Yes, but the Jews had other ideas tho. Does Israel now believe itself to be righteous? Yes, but Palestinians think otherwise.
Now look at your own life. Have you ever been subjected to an authority you disagreed with? Your teachers at school, your bosses at work...I'm sure there's been times when you've thought, "this person is fucked up!" when they exerted power over you. Now, have you ever been in a position of power yourself, and had that power questioned by someone you were trying to control? Didn't you feel you were justified in exercising your power, that you were RIGHT to do so? And that that very rightness is the reason you had the power? I'm sure the person you were controlling had different ideas.
Going over history and experience, I don't believe a universal law to power can be found. .... except maybe that no-one likes to be dominated.... and also that old adage, "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"....
So basically, by your logic the oppressed have no real claim to justifiably hold any power, since when they will, they will be bound to be unjust anyway. So why not just let those who rule, rule however they feel like it other than the subjective feeling of wanting to be in power/thinking it subjectively unjust to not be.
i disagree with the adage you mentioned, i don't think its always true that people with power and necessarily corrupted by it. I think, it is rather true that a person with a corrupt soul, when given power, gets to exhibit this corruption on such a larger scale, whereas if he had no power its the case that such a person would be controlled by another in such a way that he would not get to exhibit this corruption.
For instance, say a person is bad by nature. Doesn't the law control such a person and in a way make them amenable to live in society? for instance, if he commits a crime, he will be punished. Even the most self-interested myopic person can act completely selfishly and be a horrible person, yet get along fine in society. But what if we were to make such a person tyrant, removing the laws from governing their soul. Then what? the corruption would exhibit itself in their behavior. They would go about, unimpeded by the law, destroying peoples lives, pillaging, raping, murdering, etc.
So power allows for the expression of those who are already corrupt to come out. my 2 cents anyway.
I'm tempted to say that some don't want "power" - that is, influence over others. Some just want self-determination (i.e. power over themselves)....
but really, shit aint like that.
Everybody wants to be the boss. Every waiter dreams of owning the joint. And some eventually get to.
I'll submit this point to you. The universe is about BALANCE. When the pendulum swings in one direction, it NECESSARILY must swing back into the other. Like how day follows night, or how spring follows winter.
Call it the Yin and the Yang if you want to.
The Oppressed/Oppressor drama will go on forever in cycles.
Separate names with a comma.