if i was to lose everything i gained form a cycle what would the sense in taking it be? with the stuff i listed, Havoc & Epistane, the cycle lasts about 4 weeks with a 3 week PCT and the gains are generally ~10 pounds, fairly dry which is why im interested in them with mild side effects. most people also claim to not have any problems using it and keep most if not all gains. some people may take steroids their whole lives, some may not. its really their descision. Arnold is the posterboy for steroids. he was using them since his early teens, by your assumptions he shouldve been dead or something by now but is he? no, he became a movie star and now is head of the state of California. so obviously every person is going to be different. saying everyone is going to use steroids the same is rediculous, people are individuals and its not doing justice to generalize like that. i think its like saying everyone would spend $10,000 the same.