RE: Shroud of Turin fake as scriptures prove.

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by Coup d Mobile, Apr 19, 2012.

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  1. Coup d Mobile

    Coup d Mobile Up is down, down is up

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    You can post all the discovery channel shows and all the theories and philosophies of men to prove anything, does it make it so ? Elohim Forbid. You could even prove by man that an elephant could hang by his tail on a daisy off a cliff...but that don't mean it's reality.

    Some people ask if the Shroud of Turin proves Yahshuah the MessiYAH lived on earth. Well, we don't need the cloth to prove that. That cloth is not Yahshuah and that is for sure. There several real serious problems with this, the Shroud of Turin.

    They say (propagandist, The messiYAH was "black" anyhow. See my video called: True identity of "african americans") you can see the outline of his beard, and his crucifixion wounds too. Well, the bible says his face was covered about with a napkin. A napkin on his face, under the linen (shroud). So blood could not of hit the outter layer, because the napkin directly on his face...

    and he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Yahshuah saith unto them Loose him, and let him go John 11:44

    The piece around his face and head was different from his body:

    The cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulcher, and setteh the linen clothes lie, And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself --John 20:6

    The Shroud of Turin has one cloth covering the head and body. It's not the burial cloth of Yahshuah. They saw the linen clothes lye by themselves.

    Then arose Peter' and ran unto the sepulcher; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wandering in himself at that which was come to pass Luke 24:12

    Isiah prophesied that they would pluck off his hair:

    I gave my back to the smiters, and my checks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting --Isiah 50:6

    The Shroud of Turin shows a man with a beard but Yahshuah did not have a beard. And by the time he got buried they plucked off the hair off his checks. First Corinthians says it's a shame for a man to have long hair:

    Doth not even nature itself teach you that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him ? I Corinthians 11:14

    Again, the shroud depicts a white Yahshuah with long hair and beard. But we know Yahshuah was 'balck' and did not have long hair, he was not a Nazarite, he was a Nazareth (Nazarene).

    The custom of that day was to have short hair. If the custom was to have short hair why did Judas have to kiss Yahshuah to pick him out of a crowd ? If Yahshuah had long hair just say, " Hey, he's the long hair guy, go get him."

    Now he (Judas) that betrayed him gave them a sign, saying, whomsoever I shall kiss, that same is he: hold fast, And forth with he came to Yahshuah, and said Hail, master; and kissed him --Matthew 26:48-49

    Yahshuah had short hair like everybody else.

    Yahshuah went to the feast secretly and no one picked him out as unusual. Then said some of them of Jerusalem is not this he, whom they seek to kill ? --John 7:25

    He looked like everybody else with short hair. It was the roman custom of the day. He was not a Nazarite as from Numbers ch. 6

    Speak unto the children of Ysrael, and say unto them, when either man or woman shall separate themselves to vow a vow of a Nazarite, to separate themselves unto YAHUWAH: He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink and liquor of grapes ,nor eat moist grapes, or dried...All the days of the vow of his separation there shall no razor come upon his head Numbers --6:2-5

    Yahshuah was from Nazareth

    And he come and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene-- Matthew 2:23

    Don't' get the two confused. No connection here whatsoever. The Shroud is just a really an old cloth, that somebody may have been buried in, It may be a cloth somebody was crucified in. But it's not Yahshuah's. That is for sure.

    Thank the pagan Catholic Church for creating the pagan like Christ depicted so much today...that is not how he looked. He was "black". ....The Yahshuah the Catholics and Christians created is really fitting of their true mystery school belifes...mary the queen of haven (the devil etc...) stay away!
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  2. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Wow bro well if you actually watch the clip the have the face covering as well.

    its exactly the same and the impose it over the shroud. it is exact
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  3. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Doth not even nature itself teach you that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him ? I Corinthians 11:14


    samson had long hair.
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  4. Coup d Mobile

    Coup d Mobile Up is down, down is up

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    I'm not interested in clips or movies...the scriptures are enough. Scriptures prove it was not him. And the MessiYAH was "black" anyhow. You big dummy.

    If you read the OP you will know also it was a fake. But your ego is too BIG.
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  5. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    lol..ur so funny coup. this is 2 thousand years ago. you know how often i have to get my hair cut to keep it short

    Your saying Jesus was like line me up real quick, I gotta sermons to preach niggas


    I highly doubt he would focus on his appearance by getting a haircut all the time in order to keep his hair and beard short
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  6. Coup d Mobile

    Coup d Mobile Up is down, down is up

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    You big dummy of so little faith. read the OP. MESSIYAH WAS "BLACK" ANYHOW.

    lol I cut my hair twice a year...it never gets to my shoulders.
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  7. Jay Bee

    Jay Bee Boricua

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    coup d mobile owns
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  8. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Jesus was no one of status. This is 2000 yrs ago bro. Even if he was black as wesley snipes that doesnt change the fact that hair grows. He was always in the mission field. Lets think logically about this how often would he need to cut his hair by deffinition to keep it short.
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  9. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    I see at at about chin level there.
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  10. Coup d Mobile

    Coup d Mobile Up is down, down is up

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    A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic.

    This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

    Topic A is under discussion.
    Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
    Topic A is abandoned.
    This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim
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  11. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Now we dont know if it was jesus's barial cloth & face covering. As that would be hard to prove but...

    We do know it was of a real man, that was crucified, with flogging wounds, a pierce on the side, head wounds consistant with a crown of thornes, blood type a/b.

    It contains 3d information, pollen from flowers that only bloom within that area
    A inscription that was laid about the neck that reads aba 'father'

    Among loads of other unique to jesus things.

    These are facts now.
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  12. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Evidence and Analysis of the Shroud

    In the last century, a variety of tests and observations have been made on the Turin Shroud, which have been interpreted in various ways. Following is a summary of the primary observations made on the shroud by scientists and others.

    Crucifixion technique

    The piercing of the wrists rather than the palms contradicts traditional Christian iconography, especially in the Middle Ages, but many modern scholars suggest that crucifixion victims were generally nailed through the wrists. A skeleton discovered in the Holy Land shows that at least some were nailed between the radius and ulna, but this was not common knowledge in the Middle Ages. Proponents of the shroud's mystical origins contend that a medieval forger would have been unlikely to know this operational detail of an execution method almost completely discontinued centuries earlier.

    Blood stains

    There are several reddish stains on the shroud suggesting blood. Chemist Walter McCrone (see above) identified these as simple pigment materials and reported that no forensic tests of the samples he used indicated the presence of blood. Other researchers, including Dr. Alan Adler, a chemist specializing in analysis of porphyrins, identified the reddish stains as type AB blood.

    The particular shade of red of the supposed blood stains is also problematic. Normally, whole blood stains discolor relatively *****ly, turning to a black-brown color, while these stains in fact range from a true red to the more normal brown color. Supporters of the shroud counter that the stains were not from bleeding wounds, but from the liquid exuded by blood clots. In the case of severe trauma, as evidenced by the Man of the Shroud, this liquid would include a mixture of bilirubin and oxidized hemoglobin, which could remain red indefinitely. Adler and John Heller [7] (http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/ford1.pdf) detected bilirubin and the protein albumin in the stains. However, it is uncertain whether the blood stains were produced at the same time as the image, which Adler and Heller attributed to premature aging of the linen. (See Heller and Adler, 1980.)

    Pollen grains

    Researchers of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem reported the presence of pollen grains in the cloth samples, showing species appropriate to the spring in Palestine. However, these researchers, Avinoam Danin and Uri Baruch were working with samples provided by Max Frei, a Swiss police criminologist who had previously been censured for faking evidence. Independent review of the strands showed that one strand out of the 26 provided contained significantly more pollen than the others, perhaps pointing to deliberate contamination.

    The Israeli researchers also detected the outlines of various flowering plants on the cloth, which they say would point to March or April and the environs of Jerusalem, based on the species identified. In the forehead area, corresponding to the crown of thorns if the image is genuine, they found traces of Gundelia tournefortii, which is limited to this period of the year in the Jerusalem area. This analysis depends on interpretation of various patterns on the shroud as representing particular plants. However, skeptics point out that the available images (Pressed Flowers) cannot be seen as unequivocal support of any particular plant species due to the amount of indistinctness.

    Sudarium of Oviedo

    In the northern Spanish city of Oviedo, there is a small bloodstained piece of linen that is also revered as one of the burial cloths mentioned in the Gospel of John. John refers to a "sudarium" (σουδαριον) that covered the head and the "linen cloth" or "bandages" (οθονιον—othonion) that covered the body. The sudarium of Oviedo is traditionally held to be this cloth that covered the head of Jesus.

    The sudarium's existence and presence in Oviedo is well attested since the eighth century and in Spain since the seventh century. Before these dates the location of the sudarium is less certain, but some scholars trace it to Jerusalem in the first century.

    Forensic analysis of the bloodstains on the shroud and the sudarium suggest that both cloths may have covered the same head at nearly the same time. Based on the bloodstain patterns, the Sudarium would have been placed on the man's head while he was in a vertical position, presumably while still hanging on the cross. This cloth was then presumably removed before the shroud was applied.

    A 1999 study by Mark Guscin, member of the multidisciplinary investigation team of the Spanish Center for Sindonology, investigated the relationship between the two cloths. Based on history, forensic pathology, blood chemistry (the Sudarium also is said to have type AB blood stains), and stain patterns, he concluded that the two cloths covered the same head at two distinct, but close moments of time. Avinoam Danin (see above) concurred with this analysis, adding that the pollen grains in the sudarium match those of the shroud.

    Skeptics say that this argument is spurious. Since they deny the blood stains on the shroud, the blood stains on this cloth are irrelevant. Further, the argument about the pollen types is greatly weakened by the debunking of Danin's work on the shroud due to the possibly tampered-with sample he worked from. Pollen from Jerusalem could have followed any number of paths to find its way to the sudarium, and only indicates location, not the dating of the cloth.

    Coins over the eyes

    Using techniques of digital image processing, NASA researchers Jackson, Jumper and Stephenson report detecting the impressions of coins placed on both eyes after a digital study in 1978. The coin on the right eye was reported to correspond to a Roman copper coin produced in AD 29 and 30 in Jerusalem, while that on the left resembles a lituus coin from the reign of Tiberius. Skeptics argue that there is no recorded Jewish tradition of putting coins over the eyes of the dead.

    Inscriptions on the shroud

    Also using digital image processing, Piero Ugolotti reported (1979) Greek and Latin letters written near the face. These were further studied by André Marion and his student Anne Laure Courage of the Institut d'Optique Théorique et Aplliquée d'Orsay (1997). On the right side they cite the letters ΨΣ ΚΙΑ. They interpret this as ΟΨ—ops "face" + ΣΚΙΑ—skia "shadow", though the initial letter is missing. This interpretation has the problem that it is grammatically incorrect in Greek, as "face" would have to appear in the genitive case. (Cf. Antonio Lombatti)

    On the left side they report the Latin letters IN NECE, which they suggest is the beginning of IN NECEM IBIS, "you will go to death", and ΝΝΑΖΑΡΕΝΝΟΣ—NNAZARENNOS (a grossly misspelled "the Nazarene" in Greek). Several other "inscriptions" were detected by the scientists, but Mark Guscin (a shroud proponent) reports that only one is at all probable in Greek or Latin: ΗΣΟΥ This is the genitive of "Jesus", but missing the first letter. Shroud skeptics reject this claim because of the spelling errors. (Cf. Antonio Lombatti)
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  13. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Gospel of John

    The Gospel of John is sometimes cited as evidence that the shroud is a hoax since English translations typically use the plural word "cloths" or "clothes" for the covering of the body: "Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes [othonia] lie, and the napkin [sudarium], that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself" (Jn 20:6-7, KJV). Shroud proponents hold that the "linen clothes" refers to the Shroud of Turin, while the "napkin" refers to the Sudarium of Oviedo.

    The Gospel of John also states, "Nicodemus ... brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury" (Jn 19:39-40, KJV). No traces of spices have been found on the cloth. Frederick Zugibe, a medical examiner, reports that the body of the man wrapped in the shroud appears to have been washed before the wrapping. It would seem odd for this to occur after the anointing, so some proponents have suggested that the shroud was a preliminary cloth that was then replaced before the anointing, because there was not enough time for the anointing due to the Sabbath. However, there is no empirical evidence to support these theories. Some supporters suggest that the plant bloom images detected by Danin may be from herbs that were simply strewn over the body due to the lack of preparation time mentioned in the New Testament, with the visit of the women on Sunday thus presumed to be for the purpose of completing the anointing of the body.
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  14. Coup d Mobile

    Coup d Mobile Up is down, down is up

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    Yeah, the shourd is probably a legit cloth...but it is not Yahshuah's. That is for sure. And note his name is not "jesus"
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  15. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    if jesus rose from the dead.. then HOW THE FUCK DID they find this shroud ?? hmmm
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  16. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    The shroud did not go with him....lp

    But in the case of could it be jesus's, the proof actually leans more towards the possibility ofit being authentic thsn not
    Theres too many consistancies to write off that possibility just because

    And no good reason to deny the proof being that it is a possibility
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  17. Coup d'état

    Coup d'état Don't believe the hype

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    Scriptures are proof enough that it was not our MessiYAH.

    But all the good info you posted, all that research on that particular cloth, is proof to me that it was in fact a real burial cloth...but in no wise was is it Yahshuah's.
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  18. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    It says nazarene not jesus
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  19. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

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    how long would that shroud have had to be on him for it to make that imprint or whatever u call it?

    and you think that they actually rolled the rock back and didn't use that cave again?? nah b..doesn't make sense
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  20. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Its says jesus was beaten and flogged so badly u could not even recognize him as a human.

    Needless to say the blood would be there. As well as it is consistant.
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