Discussion in 'Rapmusic.com Battle League' started by Extreme Venom, Aug 3, 2011.
Bars r n.
some folks on here are over-seas, unfamiliar or uneducated. dont flatter yourself, youve probably never pulled off an en-passant in a game of chess in your life.
but hey, way cool gun-plays :lp2: pow pow bang bang
Then don't use bars people won't get, not that hard.
There's two sides to this and I take both of them.
For instance, I made references that only people on this board would get (Charron)
I made references to things that everyone should get (JFK, Michael Jordan)
Meanwhile, I made jokes on things only Prole, or few people might understand (CM Punk, John Wayne Gacy, etc.)
On one hand, if you make too many references that people don't understand, even if they look them up and read your battle again, it won't nearly mean as much. On the flip side, like smitty pointed out, if you do the same thing every time out it becomes tired and cliche.
It's a balance that the rapper has to find in order to maximize his success.
I'm a Fresh Coaster, who lives in Hawaii and is visiting Japan, right now. You won't see me make a whole lot of Hawaiian or Japanese jokes because, frankly, people won't get them. It's all about your audience (or judges) and you are rapping for them as much as you are against your opponent.
P.S. - How many people got that reference?
I'm just saying keep it in at least in the realm of a real battle, I know it's text but if you have to explain ya shit in an actual battle you'd be getting crickets, so all that stretched wordplay and obscure references shit is corny IMO.
As I said before, it's a balancing act. We'll judge whether or not he did a good enough job of it.
Without using such harsh language.. hes right...
I Always tell smitty he'd be so much better if he'd stop being so subborn and consider what people are telling him... Mr freeze & Wordz used to do the same shit, but when they cleaned it up they both jumped a weight class & freeze almost won the HW Championship n shit...
Eitherway Everyone finish up your battles & PM or opponents if they havnt posted up yet.. going to work...
The realm of written/texts battles vs actual audio battles will always be different because there are different advantages to both, such a pronunciation etc. Some words that can harmonize together in an actual battle might not look like they rhyme at all in written format, for example. With that said, I take advantage at writing my verses as intelligent as possible with a more diverse realm or wordplays and concepts, something Im frequently patted on the head for as much as Im scolded for it. Youre trying to compare my verse against recycled comic book bars that have been done to death, of course people are going to get it if its something theyve heard a million times.
In the end, the comment at the bottom of your verse is border-line feeding and swaying if you ask me. But thats ok. You needed the extra "umph".
Using stretched wordplay about European Kings and Chess moves doesn't make it intelligent though, just obscure, and I'm just saying how feel. Letting people know that IMO that's corny and I won't give high points in voting for that.
This is very true^^^^.The contention that you shouldn't make references that people don't get is directly dependent on what kind of references that you're making. If you have vocab or education that's above the norm,you'd be an idiot NOT to use it not only because it gives you superior weaponry but real talk: if we keep our material general,then we collectively as lyricists will "generally sound alike". There will be nothing signally sharp specific and creatively our own that will stand us out clearly from the next person.
Poor intellect education experience and/or skill on the part of your crowd is not an excuse to drop a poor verse.However,we do have to strike that balance and not oversaturate our verses with material too far out of the average person's reach for them to appreciate and respect our skill. So if you have the words and the skill,you can consistently use common metas like gunplay metas and visuals but they'll be dope..just make certain you put in the other dope stuff that a balanced and powerful verse requires.
I both agree and disagree. I think Uno got it right,it's a balancing act. Here's the truth: in most audio battles,the judges will tend to get the elevated references precisely because they're NOT the average rap fan.And quite a few rap fans who come to events like KOTD and GT are also more informed than the average rap fan,so as Uno stated? It's all about your audience.
I've battled live or spit in cyphers live a gajillion times...so have alotta people here. In my experience,a balance of elevated bars humor wordplay flow visuals metas creativity and vicious punches gets everybody going; and oftentimes they can tell the difference between you and another dude (or crew) that used primarily "common" verbiage metas etc. and will give you nod even in unofficial situations. However,quite a few people have come up to me and said:"Your shit is ill,lotta times yo shit was so complex I ain't know wtf you said but it's dope though." I take that opportunity to go through my bars like how URL and others have top name rappers breakdown their 16 bars. They always appreciate it more afterwards and it sticks with them.It's our responsibility to educate our crowd and elevate their understanding so we can keep elevating our games or else we'll always be stuck in the orbit of the ignorant.
How exactly do you spit elevated fire then? Because without using elevated knowledge,you will be stuck in the realm of the common and/or the mediocre.There will be at the end of the day nothing to separate you from the rest of the pack of emcees.Whatever your strength: punchlines,personals,visuals,humor,whatever...you have to refine that edge until it's significantly beyond the norm and that alone makes you elevate. Now idk if smitty's wordplay was stretched cuz I only scanned his verse with Jai but imo potent wordplay is potent wordplay,skill is skill.The level of appreciation that you apply to it directly in relation to the amount of skill you have regarding it. There are boxing fans who hate fighters like Cassius Clay,or how Pernell Whitaker used to be in his prime or Mayweather is now,but anybody who knows anything about boxing will tell you flat out that their incredible refined skills make them boxing exemplars and those that diss them are either ignorant,have a decided style preference so pronounced that it makes them incapable of appreciating skill as skill period as opposed to something that they greatly are prejudiced toward. If your favorite color is blue,you might hate a black car...even if it's a Bentley. However,if you know anything about CARS,you'd love a black Bentley becuase BENTLEYS ARE DOPE CARS...even though you'd like it more if it was blue.You follow me? You may prefer less elevated styles and like say...for example...Dumbfounded or QP or say Arkane over Bender. But if you like REAL SKILLZ PERIOD,then you'd appreciate everybody and can judge everyone fairly,even though they may use a style that's not your flava.
To be straight up about it? The only people I've found in years of battling who diss elevated wordplay and refined lyrical skillz--not stretched wordplay and obscurity but elevated wordplay and refined skillz across the board,not just in one area--are people who don't have any real skill themselves.
Everything you just said, I believe the opposite of.
S'allgood. But you see it's all good to me because I have a preference toward skill over style.
Skill and Style shouldn't be mutually exclusive.
Agreed...but oftentimes one's preference blinds a person to both
More often then not people focus on only being good/great at one aspect while causing the other aspects to suffer, very few if any are good/great in all aspects. Now determining who is better is solely based on what aspects you favor. If somebody tries to be super lyrical , then their flow usually suffers and they come off as boring and corny IMO. Where on the other side if your flow is top notch and you come with nice angles, you can make a common concept sound new and original.
I'm back in the country and such.
I agree with the beginning and the end of this post,but not the middle. I agree that most focus on being good/great at on aspect while causing others to suffer (usually pretty markedly) and I agree that most determine who is better solely on what aspects you favor.I agree that--depending on your creativity--you can take fresh approaches to common concepts. But it's impossible to do such a thing without elevated skill,and that brings us back to the balancing act that Uno was talking about and which I agree with wholeheartedly. I disagree that being super-lyrical=usually boring and corny depends on your definition of "lyrical". To me,being lyrical is a reference to the entire set of 15 categories that dominate quality rap/poetry and much of music period.The more categories in your verse that you do well? The better and more lyrical you are.This same approach also spawns versatility.The opposite approach that discourages elevation and intelligent punches discourages versatility and promotes wakkness cuz we'll all sound alike and eventually rap will stagnate, strangle off its own unorginality, and die.
Many people mistakenly equate "being lyrical" with hella multis back to back.That's not being lyrical,that's being multi-packed. In the RBL,I'm most known for being multi-packed...but my actual strengths are weighted toward lyricism.Lotsa multis vocab visuals decent wordplay frequency and a wide variety of punching styles. Not everybody appreciates it or even agrees with me,and that's okay. I know what I am. You can see my battle with JDM and it seems like a totally different dude than the person who wrote the verse v GSUS. You can look at my battle vs Jack and that seems like a totally different guy than the one who battled niboswald. You can look at my current battle with The Ill and that verse is totally different than my current battle with Jai in the Emcee Arena. After more than a month,I'm finally heading over to my Emcee Battle Arena battle with JDM to drop on him there and that verse will be totally different than the one I just dropped on him.I battled JDM 3 times,and each verse was different than the last.
This is also why I agree with you that skill and style shouldn't be mutually exclusive,but skill appreciation and versatility imo should always reign supreme...because you can see and appreciate the skill in any style if you're weighted toward skill.The trick is? You gotta have skill and versatilty...not just skill in a style.Because if you can only see skill in your style or styles you favor? You're weighted toward style...at the expense of the skills shown in other areas. Skills that may be superior to or at least equal to your style,and skills that could greatly enhance your style should you be openminded enough to employ them. The better judges,the better lyricists,the font of creativity and the legends of the past,here and now and the future are almost 100% lyricists cuz they stand the test of time.The rest? They're only here for a brief time,and gone and largely forgotten just as fast.
Same thing in text battles. You can only do gay jokes,gun metas,jokes in general,gun metas,and ganxta stories for so long. You gotta elevate in order to have the skill,versatility,creativity etc. to bring something else.And that's why imo skill and appreciation of skill regardless of style should reign supreme.
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