Question for the ladies

Discussion in 'Ladies Lounge' started by SeeSon, Jan 7, 2010.

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  1. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Okay, I was going to disagree until you threw in the "bag over my head"... that might be degrading... but only if I couldn't resist, hence, I was "forced."

    It doesn't necessarily matter if I got to orgasm, if I was paid, if we were anonymous, or if I was fucked hard by this woman... I chose to let these things happen... I didn't resist, so therefore I consented... and unless, I'm 2 years old, I should have an understanding of what just happened to me... or to US... because consensual sex is NEVER a ONE-way street, as the sympathizers of perpetual female victimhood would have you believe.

    I will allow that it depends on how you define "degrading," because I think it's fluid... all the other things that we like to identify with are also fluid and socially constructed... some people feel degraded when they experience anything that's "undignified." Like if you don't address an adult with "sir" or "maam," that might be degrading.

    I don't buy the notion that our multi dimensions as human beings has to have a hierarchy... that is what Tight-Eyes believes... and so many others... I don't think consensual sex in any form is degrading, because it's an act and an identity, naturally inherent to all living things, that is no more or less than a spiritual one, or an emotional one or a mental one...

    And then when it comes to sex, some people become picky on what acts they call degrading... either sex as a whole is degrading or it's not... it shouldn't matter the type of sex (hence, taste)... I could probably argue that "doggy-style" is degrading, but a lot of people who find choking degrading probably like doggy-style... are they hypocrites?
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  2. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    I disagree. I believe people can be complicit in their own deragation. A lot of folks get paid to make a fool of themselves (blackface performers, etc), and they do so willingly.

    From a social standpoint, a woman who participates in those kinds of acts is looked down upon... she's "dirty"/"bad"/etc. Her value is lowered... degraded. Sex industry workers in general are held in lower esteem. Same goes for women who are considered promiscuous.

    Circling back to my original point, I think thats actually part of the appeal for folks who get off on that type of porn... fantasizing about dominating some chick... Being able to have any kind of wild, abusive sex with that person that you want... the kind of sex you arent usually able to get, without significant $$, resistance and/or reprocussions. Porn is about fantasy.


    Nah, the term "degrading" as I understand it and am applying it here is that which lowers one's esteem, Value, character or moral being. I think most would agree that allowing random strangers to abuse you and treat your body like a disposable cum dumpster, would certainly qualify.

    I do grow my own herbs though :) Organic is definitely better than processed, chemically treated foods, which do "degrade" a person in a bio-physical way. But I digress.
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  3. Miss.Italiana

    Miss.Italiana .beautifully.different.

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    I agree with everyone on here. It can be insecurities or it can simply be we want to be the center of his attention, and some girl grinding on a pole is taking that away for whatever reason.. :yuck:
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  4. LeePipino

    LeePipino What had happened was..

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    What is so fly about some girl sliding up and down on a pole? really?
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  5. RapCritik

    RapCritik New Member

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    Consensual sex is never degrading? Ok, one last example.

    A woman and man have consensual sex. The woman experienced love at first sight earlier that evening and made love with her new Romeo on the first night, which she's doing for the first time in her life.

    After Romeo busts into the condom, he dresses quickly, saying he has to go feed his fish, all the while chuckling under his breath.

    Our Julliette waits in baited breath by the phone for 6 weeks.

    Our Romeo has practically forgotten her and greets her in the same restaurant 18 months later and doesn't recognize her.

    Was the consensual sex Romeo and Julliet shared degrading to you? Do you believe Julliet found it degrading? Do you believe Romeo esteemed Julliet as anything less than what she is, thereby degrading her?

    Ok no more examples.
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  6. RapCritik

    RapCritik New Member

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    Well then you live in fanatically judgmental world, where judgment of whether a person is guilty of degrading themselves or another is entirely reserved for a third party.

    I think your opinions are short-sighted and biased. Now I value your intelligence less. I hereby pronounce you to be degrading yourself!

    Kidding....but hopefully you see my point.

    Sadly, I buy fresh thyme from the grocery store. Maybe I'm just as guilty of self-degradation as you are.
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  7. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Hmm... interesting.

    It's a matter of perspective, though... I think a person can be empowered by taking on certain acts that are deemed "degrading" and reversing its appeal... like Missy and the "bitch" term... or NWA and "nigga."

    The minstrel shows and coonery of yesteryear might've been degrading... but can we say the same for the platinum teeth rappers of today?

    But who controls this value?

    That's the real question... the person or the viewer?

    It might be a little of both... BUT, what can you do if a person is determined to have a certain opinion of you no matter how you present yourself (ie., racists)? Why should you be a slave to their perceptions? To a hillbilly in TN, you're still a nigga whether you're in a 3-piece suit or baggy jeans and baseball cap.

    Isn't that tide changing, though? This isn't the '50s.

    Maybe those views are still held in the Bible Belt... but nowadays, who is really a whore? Everybody has premarital sex. Everybody has been with more than one partner. You can't tell the difference between hookers and regular women these days.

    Why do you assume that it's always the woman who is dominated? Or that her domination is automatically degrading?

    Sex in general must be degrading to women to you.


    All those things are debatable, because they are socially constructed... and again, I see you'll never see the woman as being anything more than passive in sex, so I guess I should stop arguing with you on that... but uh, those women do control their own destinies and pursuits in porn and in life.
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  8. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Nope... not degrading.

    Wanna know what's degrading to me?

    Children being used as pawns by malevolent adults, either to get back at exes or to cheat on tax returns.


    Two grown consensual adults can not degrade each other... unless one is retarded or is forced.
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  9. RapCritik

    RapCritik New Member

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    So THAT's what growing up is about, I get it now. Adulthood is the shedding of the ability to be degraded. You make choices and live with them, but your value is constant. Like Gold in the old days.

    A child's value is floating, like the dollar, because their value is left in the hands of adults.

    I get it.

    edit*** Just one more thing. If an adult can determine the value of a child by manipulating them, "using them as pawns", why doesn't that principle apply to an adult being "used as a pawn" by another adult? A woman can be used "to get back at an ex" just as a child can. A woman can be used to "cheat on tax returns" just as a child can.
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  10. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    Unfortunately, we do live in a fantastically judgemental world. My point from the beginning was based on that social perspect (folks who watch porn). You yourself made a judgement as to whether porn was degrading to the actors, when you decided that it wasnt degrading because they get paid. Same difference.

    No matter what we think of ourselves, others are also just as free to judge and form opinion about us. That doesnt mean we dont or cant judge ourselves on our own terms.

    I'm good with that. We're all entitled to our opinions, afterall.


    Yes you are lol j/k
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  11. RapCritik

    RapCritik New Member

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    So you're good with my judgement of you?

    Did you ever wonder if porn actresses might be good with anybody else's judgement of them?

    You're arguing that judgement of value is up to others and yet, in practice, you leave judgement of your own value up to yourself.

    Contradiction.

    ****

    My argument is what you're only practicing. That we decide our own value, ultimately, because how we feel about ourselves inside is all that matters.

    My "judgement" of porn actresses was not a judgment of them but a rationalization of their possible motives. "they wanna get paid and don't feel bad about that"....you were the one making a value judgment, putting your values on them.

    I wouldn't want my daughter to be a porn star either....but my daughter isn't a porn star. And if she grew up to be one....I would feel like she was degrading herself....but the truth would be inside of her, not me.
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  12. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    No, I never argued that, I said others are free to form their own opinion of you jist as you are free to form your own judgement of yourself. Judgement is unavoidable, doesnt mean you have to agree or be a slave to it.

    So when I say I'm good with your opinion, it means I respect your right to have one, not that I actually give a shit about it.

    Feel me now.
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  13. RapCritik

    RapCritik New Member

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    what do you think of this tight-eyes?

    You yourself said you don't have to be a slave to judgment of others. That goes against your point.
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  14. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    How so?
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  15. RapCritik

    RapCritik New Member

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    Because if we're not "a slave" to the opinion of others....then we ourselves determine our value, not others.

    You think porn stars are degraded. Well you might as well have saved your breath because porn stars don't give a fuck.

    Whether or not they are actually degraded is not up to you.
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  16. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    Its up to whoever decides to entertain a thought about it.
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  17. NwThtUKnwMe

    NwThtUKnwMe NAIVE

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    Come on guys, this has gone on long enough. Its not an opinion that some people do not have a problem "degrading" themselves to make money. When someone has a reason, whether its taking care of their family or supporting a dream, they may do whatever necessary to make it happen. Strip, prostitute, prostitute on film, clean toilet bowls, whatever, its only degrading to the person doing it if they feel degraded.

    Other women being degraded by porn that they get paid to do is a dumb ass reason to have a problem with your man watching porn. Why do you care how those hoes feel? They may be perfectly happy with what they decided to do and your man isn't in the video so wtf. Would you be more comfortable with your man watching "ILOVEYOU" porn? Or bitches strippin to "Lets get Married"? Can we be real or let this shit die now?
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  18. RapCritik

    RapCritik New Member

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    lol, ok.

    edit* I get that we each have the final say on our own reality.

    But whatever we may think of another person's value has no bearing on actuality. We didn't create them, and we don't live their life.

    Thoughts Tight-Eyes may entertain about another woman's value are just entertainment.
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  19. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    Actuality/truth is subjective. Until you live in total isolation, other peoples opinions will matter and have an effect on your life. That was my point from the getup. Yes its important to value yourself, but you must also understand how others perceive you, and the effect that their perceptions [can] have on your life, because your social value will have a bearing on how others deal with you. So in that regard, other peoples thoughts are a lot more than just "entertainment". And so long as other people have the power to effect your life in major ways... determining whether or not you're selected for a particular job, whether you're qualified to receive a home loan, whether or not to extend to you certain privileges or liberties, how you're treated in a relationship... then yeah, other peoples opinions do matter. To deny that fact is pretty delusional and naieve.
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  20. RapCritik

    RapCritik New Member

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    "DEGRADING-ONE'S-SELF" - noun - surrendering one's autonomy to feel good inside on one's own terms, leaving that to others, or leaving that to one's ability to get money from others.

    -taken from RC's UNABRIDGED Dictionary of Compound Words.
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