Question for the ladies

Discussion in 'Ladies Lounge' started by SeeSon, Jan 7, 2010.

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  1. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    I feel that, but porn doesn't need to serve those other needs. Its sole purpose is to provide a fantastical sexual experience. If I need those other needs or dimensions met in a person, then I go and look specifically for those things. I think it's wrong to expect or demand that every person display everything that YOU need in a human being. I even have trouble with assigning certain dimensions of a human to a particular hierarchy. Who is to say that the sexual identity is any less than the spiritual or emotional one?

    Objectifying is simply defining a certain standard or characteristic in a person. We all do it everyday. Women objectify men as sexual objects, money objects, fix-it objects, venting objects, etc. The same applies for men. Children objectify their parents as protector and provider objects. Nobody is particularly "reduced" in those instances. I think you can only be "reduced" when you're objectified in a sense that is unnatural. Sex is completely natural.

    I'm intelligent enough to not demand or expect my wife to be exactly like the sex objects in porn. Just like she's intelligent enough to not expect me to be like any of the other male entertainers she idolizes on tv and film.

    True... I was speaking from my perspective to let you know that I don't have a problem with separating fantasy from reality, nor with feeling secure about myself after watching men who only represent a small percentage of the population when it comes to their physical gifts.

    I do consider my partner's needs and security level... we've actually watched some flicks together so that we can learn some techniques. I think you tend to ignore the education element that exists in that genre. It can be very enriching to couples with open minds and a sense of adventure.
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  2. RapCritik

    RapCritik New Member

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    If this is what's you're arguing ... then that woman with the big-titties who lives on the third floor is problematic. And that other woman who his cousin is married to and who cooks 5-star meals every night is problematic.

    And for you, your girlfriend's man who gives her unbelievable backrubs and listens intently to her while offering sympathetic advice is problematic. The new car your cousin's man just bought her, while you got a coffee-maker from your man, is problematic.

    The mere fact that you chose to isolate porn fantasy as a problem shows just how central sex is to the human psyche, so forget about the "multiple dimensions of real life" you brought up.

    Bottom line of your argument: Porn is wrong, Romance novels are wrong, expecting anything from your partner that they can't give is wrong - be it financially, emotionally, or sexually.

    May you find perfect love on earth with your soulmate, tight-eyes.
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  3. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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  4. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    I never said porn is bad/wrong or that it should be realistic, nor do I believe so. You're both putting words in my mouth and arguing against points I never made. Strawman much?

    I said porn is based on fantasy and that problems can arise when taken outside of that context and compared against real life.

    In short, porn isnt the problem, its peoples' skewed ideals based off porn that is the issue.
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  5. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    Sexual objectification

    "Sex object" redirects here. For the song by Kraftwerk, see Electric Café
    Sexual objectification refers to the practice of regarding or treating another person merely as an instrument (object) towards the person's sexual pleasure. Objectification is an attitude that regards a person as a commodity or as an object for use, with insufficient regard for a person's personality.[1][2]
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  6. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    I didnt make the choice to isolate porn, its the thread topic. I did throw In romance novel novels as an addition.

    Not my argument at all, but thanks for the well wishes.
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  7. MistaChipz

    MistaChipz New Member

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    You and I are like Republicans and Democrats, WE RARELY AGREE. lol...

    Porn objectifies people, not women, Porn is about sex, not human interaction or emotion. Nothing you mentioned(besides sex) has anything to do with porn and everything to do with RELATIONSHIPS, wether you give us credit or not, Most men know that and do not blur the lines. In most cases Ive seen, a woman is not insecure because her man has unrealistic expectations set by porn, she's insecure because SHE has unrealistic expectations as a cause of her own insecurity..Insecurity is a self inflicted wound, and its usually a permanent scar long before the man comes into the picture.
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  8. MistaChipz

    MistaChipz New Member

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    .......my version.

    also, Most porn stars do not have perfect bodies. You dont watch porn do you? I get the sense that you have seen it but havent watched it in a very long time...your whole depiction of porn had a "early 90s" feel to it lol....
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  9. MistaChipz

    MistaChipz New Member

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    lol I edited my point alot so be sure to read the final post.
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  10. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    I agree that the men in porn are also objectified, and I also agree that porn is about sex[ual fantasy], not relationship (see, we do agree on stuff lol). My point isnt now, nor has it been at any point in this topic, that porn should be about anything other than what it is or that porn is bad. I was simply pointing out those characteristics (fantasy, unrealistic, objectifying), and how repetitive viewing, over time, can effect a person psychologically and skew their perception/ideals regarding the world around them, including their expectations on sexual relationships.

    There have been COUNTLESS studies on the effects of media on the human psyche (My major at UC Berkeley was Mass Media, I actually took a course called "Mass Media and its Effects on Society". I've had to do more research on this topic than I ever wanted to!). What we are exposed to has a significant effect on us. Be that positive role models we see, violent movies/video games/lyrics, religious sermons, love songs, magazines/movies full of airbrushed bodies, etc. They all have an effect, mostly its subconscious.

    Anyhoo, I'm deliriously sleepy. I'll get back to this tomorrow. You made some interesting points I wanna address :)
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  11. MistaChipz

    MistaChipz New Member

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    I was gon say the same thing about this post...you made some point I want to address but the weed has set in, and its taking me longer than it should just to type this, haha...

    see ya tomorrow...
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  12. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    This doesn't nullify what I wrote.

    I know what objectification means. I also know that we ALL do it. I also believe that it doesn't have to be negative or positive... nor does every instance of objectification "reduces" a person to anything less than a person.

    I don't think a person can ever be reduced or commodified by sex, because it's natural and necessary... most people tend to choose to exemplify a more sexual identity, so it's not a passive thing.

    I have never seen a woman have "sexual objectification" forced upon her... maybe those Muslim women who are covered from head to toe, but not American women and their love of showing off flesh.
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  13. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    This is similar to the argument that violence on television will make people go commit violence in real life.

    Its simply not true.

    There are too many important real life factors that affect how people view sex and relationships. the most important factors include peoples own past experiences and their observations of others' experiences.
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  14. MistaChipz

    MistaChipz New Member

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    Exactly, and when I say I couldnt have said it better myself I mean that literally, Ig is just smarter, lol.....

    Basically my point is insecurity is not contagious, its not something a woman catches like a cold, there is no scapegoat. I totally understand that media in all shapes and sizes(commericals, radio, music, movies, etc) can play a roll in contributing to a woman's negative self image, but its not the cause, the woman's negative self image is the cause.

    Like Ig said, porn starlets dont have sexual objectification forced upon them, its a concious and in alot of cases, enthusiastic choice made by the participant. Porn is not about making a woman a sexual object, its about making sex entertainment. In most porn the man's face is barely shown, why? because the man is not a man, he's a penis, lol, so trust me, all participants are objectified to one extent or another, its not exclusive to women. American women are some of the most sexually liberated women on the planet, I just dont buy the whole "the media is the reason I hate my body" excuse....
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  15. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Guys, I think we just might have to accept that some people will always view women as the victim, no matter what.

    Objectification in porn and other sex entertainment is always focused on the woman because many people believe that such participation from them is beyond their control. Their volition is hijacked due to the system of sexism that pervades every sector of society. Their choices then become ruled by what men believe, even if we have no active power in the system in which they choose to participate.

    I even heard feminists blame female catfighting on male patriarchy.

    Face it, men.. it's ALL our fault... and it will ALWAYS be our fault.
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  16. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    I believe most of the "line blurring" occurs on a subconscious level. I dont think its intentional or that most people who watch porn regularly would believe that it has as significant an effect on them as it really does.


    I agree that insecurity is a personal issue, and ideally we should all base our sense of security should come strictly from within, without regardto outside influence, but unfortunately that is not reality. For most people, a large part of our ego/self esteem is based on how we believe we are perceived by others. If we dont believe we are [capable of] fulfilling our partner's (someone we value and place a high importance on pleasing) expectations/needs, it is likely going to have a negative effect on our self-esteem.

    I liken it to some of the "independent women" types who have an "I dont need a man" attitude and tend to [often subconsciously] give their partner signals that let them no they arent needed, because the independent woman can take care of themselves. Being that a lot of men are conditioned to feel its their duty to take care of [protect and provide for] their woman, those men often end up feeling inadequate and unable to fulfill their primary expectation/function within their relationship.

    No man is an island. We're all effected in different ways by outside influences. No one can "make" you insecure, but they can certainly contribute to your negative self esteem.

    Besides, even if you have high esteem, your partner's negative feelings about your ability to meet their expectations will likely have a negative impact on your relationship. You dont have to hav low self esteem to be negatively effected by your partners ideals.

    To that end, like I told Ignorant, even if you are an extremely secure person, your partners [negative/unrealistic] ideals can still have a negative impact on you and your relationship.
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  17. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    Isnt porn also an "observation of others' experiences"?

    And I didnt say it "makes" anyone do anything, I said it has an effect and can potentially influence a person.
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  18. thedream233

    thedream233 Thrillmatic

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    I mean experiences in real life as opposed to on a screen.

    and even if it can potentially influence a person, my point is that this is an extremely small influence compared to real life influences.
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  19. tight-eyes

    tight-eyes Such a F*cking Lady!

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    I disagree, based on the countless studies I've read that show otherwise. But its all good, at least we understand eachothers points.
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  20. I think it's mainly to do with insecurity, and the whole "if you dont want to do it with me you probably want to cheat on me, and find me unattractive"

    I think in porn, women are the vessels primarily of a typically masculine way of viewing sex i.e.

    porn/sex is a means to an end - and sex is best and most natural without the emotional attachment or having to consider someone elses feelings.


    and men are ofcourse objectified in porn but its hardly the same- they certainly arent degraded in the same way that women are- but then again if you start speaking on the blame game, you also have to ask why on earth some women would let themselves be degraded to such an extent in porn? It seems to me that the majority of what could be considered to be the most disgusting/vile/self-depreciative elements of porn are carried out quite willingly by women...

    could be wrong.
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