Prejudices & religion.

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by GaLaTeA, Aug 21, 2012.

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  1. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    yes, i should have specified that. he was something of a pantheist, if i understand his position correctly.

    but i'm not sure why you people constantly list him like he was an icon of your side. he explicitly denounced your type of god.
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  2. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Im not disputing that. he was from from an atheist however.

    he was just as confused as anyone.
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  3. reggie jax

    reggie jax Well-Known Member

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    i never try to rank him as an atheist. but his version of god is so far removed from the traditional theistic god that both einstein and spinoza were actually accused of being atheists in their time. so it's ironic that i constantly get the 'einstein believed in god' argument from believers.
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  4. Riz

    Riz Well-Known Member

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    For a second I thought Azeus was back. I'd like to think he was better than this... or am I just remembering him kindly?
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  5. Sir Bustalot

    Sir Bustalot I am Jesus

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    well some animals dont have the right cones in there eyes so they cant see rainbows.

    so to those animals rainbows dont exist.
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  6. MissAndrya

    MissAndrya Evolution is what is.

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    Never trust someone who believes in a lie.
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  7. SKY

    SKY See & Know 4 Yourself

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    A rant? Ok, you can explain something or state your opinion on a subject... but when I do it it's a rant? There are no scientific explanations for prophesies...

    How the hell do you explain a book written thousands of years ago, that is basically the script for life and everything in it is being fulfilled?

    How do you explain dark energy / dark matter? Scientists can't even figure it out, yet you say "everything" has a different explanation. So who's ranting?

    How do you explain the holographic view of this material world, if we're only the image of what is and not really what is then where is what is? The only answer I'VE seen to that is.. "on earth as it is in heaven".

    How do you explain my ancient ancestors who obtained the power to build pyraminds, move large stones across fields of land that would take a mass operation with plenty of mechanical tools and vehicles to do today.

    How do you explain coincidences and dejavu? How do you explain geniuses, scholars, doctors, professors, archeologists, who majorly agree that a "God" does exists?


    I gave up on believing because I found out the name of my heavenly Father, I studied some history and found out religion was a lie, and names and titles were false. I couldn't believe it, gave up hope and faith in a "God". One night..
    I was shot, bullet hit me went through my arm and entered my torso... the bullet stopped a half an inch from my lung, the doctor told me if it would've hit my lung they would've filled with blood and I would've been dead right away... he told me it's only by the grace of "God" I'm alive and there's no reasonable explanation to why it happened that way, he said it's not far from a miracle. Yet, you're ignorant ass wants to tell me that "God" don't exists?

    You can't give me a different explanation to none of the things I listed, because there is none. Yet I'd love to see you try. Of course I will have something to say to you, because you refuse to study, read, or build a relationship with the true creator yet you want to denounce his existence.
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  8. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    Edit; nvm..
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  9. SKY

    SKY See & Know 4 Yourself

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    Having my beliefs challenged is not upsetting, but having them challenged by people who are ignorant to knowledge is upsetting. Why are you judging things you have very little knowledge of? You go to a couple Bible studies, go to church a few times and don't believe in "God" because it doesn't appeal to you. However, if you actually READ the Bible, the people it mainly speaks of have to SEARCH for their identity in the last days, they have to "be as sly as snakes and simple as doves" to find the information that's been hidden from them, yet YOU think everything is laid out for YOU? You read it as if it's some time of fairytale, instead of considering what it says... if you want the truth, go after it but don't deny what's there simply because you can't comprehend it.

    Nevermind, it's like beating a dead horse because you are the ones "closed minded". Like "thebigpayback" said, I've considered not believing and the "other explanations" but I've found that was wrong... and through sequences of events I've come to know the truth.

    Yahoshua (Jesus) said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will rule over all."
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  10. Lord Lav

    Lord Lav Member

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    The more we know, the more we know we don't know shit!

    I love and respect everyone. Prejudice is like a false fact. It's there to be proven wrong.
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  11. Carpe Noctem

    Carpe Noctem Neos Helios

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    Prejudice is just a way of simplifying reality.

    Like religion.
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  12. THA ITIS

    THA ITIS New Member

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    Why do you disagree with believers, atheists?

    and you say we prejudice, ok.
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  13. Carpe Noctem

    Carpe Noctem Neos Helios

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    Well...

    That sure was stupid.
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  14. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    Exactly.
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  15. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    @SKY

    1. Why doesn't your »God« speak?

    If »God« wants something from an individual, it should be able to address that specific individual mano a mano, since I'm doubtful that such an omnipotent being would be letting "someone else", and certainly not "sinful human beings" to handle this task, which then present endless files of bewildered thoughts and metaphors aka zee Bible. "God" should personally deliver the message clearly, as can each brilliant, being in the universe. So, wouldn't you find it odd that we have people with their imperfections and sinfulness, who are (shockingly, I know, right) far better communicators than this quasi omnipotent, omniscient and all-loving »God«. If it only spoke so that everyone on this planet could hear him relaying clear pieces of information. And everyone would agree on information communicated, without a huge difference that has been observed amongst members of a single religion. Even if people decided to discard or reject it's message, they would still, however, be able to agree that this thing is real and operate on the basis thereof.

    Excuses won't be necessary here, Sky. Christianity proposes the theory that there's an OOC (omnipotent, omniscient creature), who wants humanity to follow the direction, which provides regulation of things, concord between people, i.e. wants to go in the direction of humanity, which is the opposite of chaos, mess and more trouble. In this context, OOC's clear message to its desires (not demands) would be communicated to ALL people, as opposed to causing a discord. Imagine such a vague communication between doctors and the impact on the poor patient. So the Bible's predictions are wrong, starting witzh the »God is eager to help humanity« shtick.

    INB4 the typical excuse, that by doing so OOC respects free will. There's no infringement or breach of free will by communication. Is the human will stronger than OOC's and therefore blocking the voices coming from the higher will (contradiction), whose greatest desire should be to help humanity and to hear it's voice, or does OOC see our free will as more worthy, and in turn "decides" to be quiet. Here Christianity again regularly pulls out contrived excuses why it is as it is. Such excuses are never worthy of faith, because they are invented just to accommodate the the ignorance of an individual. Truth isn't made up/created, it's explored!

    Point made; if OOC was true to the description of the Bible, there would be no interference of it relying messages to all people without any violation of free will. The Bible is NOT, I repeat NOT a clear and faultless source.
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  16. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    2. Why is your god passive, inert?

    The Christian God isn't insipid, bodyless, helpless little voice whose only tool is a whisper in the ears of so called human elite. The Christian God is an omnipotent creator, capable of creation and destruction of anything, reformulating spiritual and physical laws included. This is on what the whole Christianity and its branches are basing on.

    Completely simple conclusion of this theory is that OOC can instantly change bombs into flowers, dump sites into garden plots, plutonium into helium,... you get the punch line. Utopically there would be enough goods for all, and humanity wouldn't be able to generate more lives than the land can support. Every loving person would come to help someone in need, let alone God. That being said, not a sole human being can be more loving and compassionate than OOC under Christian doctrine. And yet, still silence. I'm begining to think this character OOC is infinitely x-times more limited than an average human being.

    INB4 a theist feeling entitled enough to declare that he doesn't know what OOC would or wouldn't do. But this hypothesis still implies that OOC did something. Which is de facto incorrect. The universe behaves quite the opposite: Christian laws decay just as much as non-religious, Christians are dying of the same diseases as non-Christians. Christians as non-Christians get to wealth and power and also lose those spots. These are facts, not arguments in favor of debate.

    And again, all these "ad hoc" excuses then accumulate to such an extent, that require a super dupper major "ad hoc" excuse; rules applicable to humanity don't apply to OOC.. Christianity is therefore based on a lie, a fictional character and it's little helpers.
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  17. GaLaTeA

    GaLaTeA GymArt

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    3. Christianity de facto lacks evidence.

    At its very start, Christian doctrine can not confirm the most basic claims; faith in Jesus Christ leading to eternal life. Evidence here are modest, basically there is none, zero, nada. Even if the fact that the universe has a creator would be true, it would nowhere near consequently mean that faith in Jesus Christ provided eternal life. Oh, yeah, and then there's this fabolous part of a zombie apocalypse with rising fromt he dead thingy.

    Such declarations therefore must be proven.

    At the beginning of mankind, anyone could think of any theory that has entered their mind. As long as the theory is consistent with evidence it is upheld. And it is true that the infinite theories are incompatible with corresponding evidence, however, we still say that they aren't true. We can create a myriad of viewpoints, corresponding to the observation of the world. For example, anything Buddha said, could ring true to a tee. Allah is the true God, but that can also be Zeus, etc.. almost to infinity, depending on the ability of our imagination and the duration of life's cycle.

    In other words, any theory that's only a description of events is incorrect. Theory of gravity is quite well described by a free fall with a single equation. But to the theory of gravity at least a language speaks in it's, universally known as mathematics; for example a Chinese mathematician will understand equations of American mathematician, but when it comes to translation of verbal comments, there will inevitably come to slight discrepancys. Gravity can also be done experimentally in the open, however the issue of what gravity actually is? Gravitons? Mass? It remains in the corner of theory. Selecting a theory, just because it describes appearance properties, is therefore at the beginning doomed to failure.

    Even if the Christian theory would fit the observed facts, the Christian hypothesis is nothing better than any other unproven hypothesis.

    Christianity is at odds with itself. It starts of course with tiny evidence (speaking bushes, clouds, mystical ascents of the mountain), then in one blink of an eye it skips to the hypothesis that the essence of it is in the lack of hypotheses, and is, based on blind faith. Then it suddenly is not a hypothesis anymore, but becomes this ad hoc excuse. No faith in anything should be started without at least a tiny evidence, which is basically why Christianity is a perverse paradox.

    And now we come to the best course of theistic (not just Christian) generic proof: a complex universe with life is naturally some sort of indiction that there must be a creator, which is at least as, or even more complex than his creation. Picture exists (complex information) -> painter exists. Well, a pretty bad argument against this would be: who then created OOC. A little better would be, if a thing is complex, then it is the creation of a complex creator. Whatever it is complex -> is the result of intelligent design. Hm, the divine mind is complex, therefore, by its very premise -> needs a design creator. Here we go. More falls below cosmology. But according to modern physics and a better understanding of time, of course, you can add a little fog.

    That is a generic proof of this can be summed up in: "The universe exists, therefore God exists. I feel that God exists, so it must exist." Two seemingly similar but actually not even close statements.

    For those individuals who claim that they have seen or heard OOC, have been with the help of contemporary research found and diagnosed as schizophrenic. Even believers of one religion often agree with these findings, so that they can overturn all the different deities at different times and in different cultures! This agreement is based on the subjective experience of their minds, their emotions, and in this respect even two Christians after a deeper drilling discover that they basically don't believe in the same OOC. And these personal experiences are usually more consistent with personal and cultural/collective expectations than with anything tangible in this universe. For the existence of Christianity is therefore required a lot of pride and egocentrism, pointing out that they do so love to say: »My experience is more real, everything else is a lie.«

    As far as prejudices & religion are concerned, I've never received bigger patronizing than from individuals who cling to Bible .

    Another bit of a generic proof of the divine existence. Some even claim that there would be no universe, if there were no God, which is not logical, even a little bit. The claim: "energy/matter/universe/nature" is no less likely than the claim "God just exists."

    Proof that the universe has a beginning (the big bang), many used to logically and empirically draw incorrect conclusion that God exists. Empirically the suspected origin of time and matter/energy appeared in the quantum theory of gravity, which eliminates the possibility of singularities. Cosmologists have good evidence that there has been time and space (i.e. causality should also apply to God, which triggers the big bang) before the Big Bang. In fact, a lot of energy and time. That is to say that space and time do not have a discrete beginning. And even after the logical side is not entitled to conclude that before "there must be" intelligent creator. However, no matter how difficult it is to imagine no space and no time, even if it's really how it started, it is still very likely that this is just a consequence of previous conditions that were just, um, different.

    The most popular and the only evidence to confirm the hypothesis "the universe exists-> God exists" is called incredible "fine tuning" of the universe, which enables and supports life. In fact, there's much better atheistic arguments and evidence found rather than theistic. Divine intervention is certainly not the only possible explanation of the universe and has as such (that is not the only one) would need evidence in its favor, and not to be accepted only on the basis of "feeling". Just as scientists need hours of time and mountains and mountains of papers and sacrifice on a personal and financial level, it has been shown that the universe is the inevitable consequence of the Big Bang, therefore Christians would also be needing at least a hill of collected evidence and paper, studies, etc., which would show that the big bang is an inevitable consequence of OOC's will. Only an "option" is not enough and never has been!

    And again we come to the pre-Christian myths of death and resurrection. Myths derived from records that predate the Bible, one is in every culture, everywhere on Earth:

    ~ Horus, born on 25 December virgin Isis / Mary, announced by a star in the east, followed by the three kings in 12 years has taught, baptized at 30, had 12 disciples, issued killed and after three days rises from the dead

    ~ Atis, Phrygia (Greece), born virgin 25th December, crucified, dead 3 days, then rises from the dead

    ~ Krishna, India; born a virgin, announced by a star in the East, after the death rises

    ~ Dionysus, Greece; virgin born December 25th, changing water into wine, called "Alpha and Omega," "the only Son of God," after his death, lo and behold, the resurrection.

    ~ Mitra, Persia, born a virgin, 25 December, 12 students worked miracles, was dead for three days and then the resurrection.
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  18. Alias3000

    Alias3000 Well-Known Member

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    The human mind can function on 99% if people would just let it.

    when you limit yourself to being a faithless sentient walking around only reacting to what you can see, you will become the lab rat the world killers want you to become.

    Free your mind. It's what GOD created us to do.


    Yeshua said that if we only beleived, we could be able to have greater powers than he had (multiplying fish, healing the sick, causing the blind to see)

    It's when we deny our mental powers is when we begin to put each other in boxes. pigeonholing the human species to nothing more than a walking meat puppet.
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  19. Carpe Noctem

    Carpe Noctem Neos Helios

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    God wants you to free your mind and subscribe to the doctrine of a racist religious cult.
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  20. SKY

    SKY See & Know 4 Yourself

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    Copy & Paste? Have you no independent thought? No, you don't read nor do you research. You simply look for doctrine that goes along with your non-belief and re-post or repeat it in a debate.

    Facts? Non of that B.S. you posted are facts, I got some facts for your behind.

    AMOS 3:1-2 "HEAR THIS WORD THAT YHWH HAVE SPOKEN AGAINST YOU, O CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, AGAINST THE WHOLE FAMILY WHICH I BROUGHT UP FROM THE LAND OF EGYPT SAYING, YOU ONLY HAVE I KNOWN OF ALL THE FAMILIES OF THE EARTH, THEREFORE I WILL PUNISH YOU FOR ALL YOUR INIQUITIES (sins)."


    He doesn't speak to YOU if you are not from that FAMILY. It is not a cult, we are a NATION.

    JEREMIAH 16:19, "O YAH, MY STRENGTH, AND MY FORTRESS, AND MY REFUGE IN THE DAY OF AFFLICTION THE GENTILES SHALL COME UNTO YOU FROM THE ENDS OF THE EARTH, AND SHALL SAY, SURELY OUR FATHERS HAVE INHERITED LIES, VANITY, AND THINGS WHEREIN THERE IS NO PROFITS."

    EVERYTHING that you are saying right now HAS BEEN PROPHESIED. Those of you calling us a cult, those of you saying he doesn't exists. It ALL has been prophesied, so I am NOT surprised. However, I am disappointed in how many people I see criticizing but don't have much knowledge, just so many opinion. You should be ashamed of yourself, I've had better debates with more intelligent people. SMH
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