OT: I just came to a revolutionary epihpany

Discussion in 'Overtime: Off-Topic Discussion' started by reznick, Jun 19, 2010.

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  1. BinoSWI

    BinoSWI Half Jamaikan Half Scouse

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    many different cultures make up america, thats what it is... america is a multi cultural state, so in reality, all the cultures are america culture?
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  2. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    In a very general view of things

    yes



    but there are many complexities to this, such as an already developing american culture since the time it started. But that is a whole other topic to dwell on.
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  3. mookie wilson

    mookie wilson New Member

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    Im starting to think you might be an idiot.
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  4. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    sorry boss

    ill do better next time I swears it boss
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  5. mookie wilson

    mookie wilson New Member

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    It's not like that holmes, I admire the sentiment of your ideas.
    Sure it's uplifting to think a displaced people could inherit america as their own. But that experience is not limited to blacks. Its felt by refugees vereywhere, and immigrants who embrace the new culture they're faced with while bringing adages of theirs along too.

    There's just been too many omissions & generalities to take this idea seriously:

    A) we shouldnt consider america's indigenous people because they were 'wiped out' wtf? if anyone has claim to a true american culture it is 100% obvious it would be the original settlers who remain in the US to date.

    B) that somehow your cultural identity that has accumilated for thosuands of years is wiped clean the moment your geography changes. you limited black america's connection to their roots to 'african songs'

    I would think to start a good conversation on cultural anthropology you would do some research, it seems you were just going on emotion and your personal observations.
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  6. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    A. That wasnt my argument.
    Im saying that, for the sake of this conversation, we are talking about America, as a entity, not a land. Lets say America was in the middle of the ocean, where there were no Natives. My logic would still apply.

    Im speaking about America as the country and system we built with the politics and the business, not the actual piece of physical land.

    Native Americans are the original Americans. But they, as a cultural group, do not embody the American culture. They have their own culture.


    B. No not when your geography changes. When you get abducted from your continent, and forced to live a lifestyle of slavery, where freedom of expression is met by violence from the slave masters. So yes, I believe their most powerful connection to their original home were the songs. If not then what? Books? No. Drawings? Nope.

    here, I wonder what you think of this link
    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USASsongs.htm


    Also notice the part where it says that slave masters would try to stop the slaves from singing and dancing using songs and dances from their homeland. It just kind of reaffirms my point if anything.
    Whatever racism or generalities you think is spewing from me, is most likely just your insecurities or a lack of understanding race issues.


    And before finding that link I did 0 research, because my argument is based of common knowledge. I dont need to know anthropology to make this argument.
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  7. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    why do I need to do research?

    So I can come with facts that you cannot counter unless you know the same exact information as me?
    Thats for dorks, teachers pets, and people who don't believe in their own intelligence and have to find information that the opposition is unaware of in attempt to make them look bad.

    Thats the type of logic that will land you a logistics job doing numbers for the FBI


    Nobody likes someone like that.
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  8. mookie wilson

    mookie wilson New Member

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    I would liek to know when you believe this 'loss of culture' moment takes place. Surely the man who was born in Africa and take to america hasn't forgot his unbringing and heritage. Surely this man would pass these to his children, and them to the next generation. and SURELY in this day and age, the books, art, sports, literal history, stories & religion of africa are known & celebrated globally.

    you really think nas came out with 'distant relatives' because he was stripped of his african culture?

    furthermore, if the atrocities of slave-trade are enough, in your opinion, to remove someone's cultual links to their homeland - what do you think about other horrors. Are long drawn-out civil wars (kosovo, sierra leone) or external military occupations (afghanistan, iraq) enough to remove someone's culture.

    How about the holocaust? Was jewish culture weakened or strengthened as a result? Hiroshima?
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  9. mookie wilson

    mookie wilson New Member

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    if y'all are in canada, theres a documentary on CBC right now called "Africa on the Move" all about cultural diversity, growth & change.
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  10. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    wow are you joking?
    okay here we go....

    "I would liek to know when you believe this 'loss of culture' moment takes place. Surely the man who was born in Africa and take to america hasn't forgot his unbringing and heritage. Surely this man would pass these to his children, and them to the next generation."

    - Not if the father cares for the sons well being, and wishes no harm done to him. If you remember many families were split apart during the slave-trade too. Fathers and mothers were separated from kids. There was little to no consistency or foundation for their original culture to thrive let alone survive.


    "and SURELY in this day and age, the books, art, sports, literal history, stories & religion of africa are known & celebrated globally.

    you really think nas came out with 'distant relatives' because he was stripped of his african culture?"

    - see here now you done fucked up. Have you heard of globalization? Its 2010, man wake up. Of course the African culture is well known today. Because people are free, and we have internet, and teachers who teach these things. like for real?...


    "furthermore, if the atrocities of slave-trade are enough, in your opinion, to remove someone's cultual links to their homeland - what do you think about other horrors. Are long drawn-out civil wars (kosovo, sierra leone) or external military occupations (afghanistan, iraq) enough to remove someone's culture."

    - Ummm okay CIVIL wars? Well considering those take place in ones home country, we can strike that off the list. Why would a civil war stop one from knowing practicing their culture? They dont have a master who controls them and have a price tag on them. External military operations? what the hell are you talking about. what military operation has taken millions from their homeland to a brand new country to do slave work?



    "How about the holocaust? Was jewish culture weakened or strengthened as a result? Hiroshima?"

    - Holocaust?!
    The holocaust, my friend, lasted 5 years. :funny:

    Thats 1/100th the time blacks spent in slavery.

    The holocaust would have to happen 100 more times for it to equal the length of how long slavery took
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  11. Sensei Sounds

    Sensei Sounds Certified Brappee

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    I think you're missing the point. He's not talking about an individual, as an individual who has a direct link to his/her origin isn't going to just magically have amnesia upon leaving their home country. He's talking about how the majority of black people in America aren't direct results of families coming peacefully and by choice from Africa, so they don't keep their country or village's culture intact. I honestly don't give a shit about all the slave talk, but when people are just set free after being born and raised into slavery and the culture around it, they aren't learning about their original language, religion, geography, customs....etc. Maybe they didn't try hard enough to go back to it once they had access, but the end result is a large number of black people being solely influenced by their surroundings and not what came before them. It's not like the many other cultures that came here for a better life after all that other stuff was said and done, they basically just hopped on over here and still have knowledge of their culture and more often than not, still have family in their home country that they're in contact with. My girlfriend is Laotian and she still thinks it's weird that some people wear shoes in their home. :funny:

    I don't even know what's going on here, nevermind.


    P.S. It was a cool story, bro.
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  12. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    lol thanks

    no you got it, and articulated my point very well



    And I dont have any feelings towards my dead grandparents, because they were dead before I was born. I never knew them, so I have no feeling for them

    I think, in a sense, many African americans felt the same about their origins, once they were free.
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  13. mookie wilson

    mookie wilson New Member

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    @ sensei I promise my historical to link to my ancestor's "villages" arent in tact either.

    @ reznick Your acceptance of globalization contradicts your idea of not having an african culture. it doesn't matter if you use the internet or any othe rmedium to learn about your past. the link is there. the link can't be broken. The books werent burned and the stories, culture & religion didnt disappear for these people. It si likely that it was muffled by the violence that you mentioned, but it wasnt deleted. reminds me of the afro-brazillian Capoeira martial arts.
    Thats why I mentioned war & genocide, not because they remove culture but because they don't. and neither did slavery.

    aren't there some black users of this forum who can speak on their connections to afrcan culture?
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  14. mapleleaf

    mapleleaf bumpin onyx in the jag

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    ive got tons of nationalities but my family are the only people on both sides of my family that have EVER lived west of the Mississippi river, if i raised my kid out here he wouldnt have any influence from any culture other than the one he lives in, just as i.

    i think your saying american culture=african culture because thats the only culture they know? i disagree.


    america=american culture

    multicultural nation
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  15. Sensei Sounds

    Sensei Sounds Certified Brappee

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    This whole thing is based on the premise that someone like you who actively searched for info on your origin is an exception and not in the majority.

    P.S. Not to mention, the internet was around during those hundreds of years, but the slaves were too poor to afford it so they couldn't learn about stuff...
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  16. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    why does my acceptance of globalization contradict my point?

    Im saying that the slaves original culture was taken away from them, and your proving me wrong by using Distant Relatives by Nas and Damien as an example.


    Globalization is a modern phenomena. It was not around during slavery.


    Slavery in America was a very unique thing to happen, which you cannot compare any past event in our history that can be compared to this for the sake of our argument.


    "The books werent burned and the stories, culture & religion didnt disappear for these people."

    -Really? Slaves were allowed to bring stuff to America? Ididnt know that. I thought it was more like this

    [​IMG]



    "It si likely that it was muffled by the violence that you mentioned,"

    - oh yea? You think I may be on to something? You think its likely?
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  17. mapleleaf

    mapleleaf bumpin onyx in the jag

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    i dont consider my culture to be my heritage imo either, culture is who i am what i do where i live and what goes around me, thats all 100% american to me.

    your just saying that due to the fact that america is the farthest point that many african americans heritage goes back to, that the culture is theirs, because they know nothing else other than to be american, correct?
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  18. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    May I remind you....



    Thing slaves were not allowed to do :

    * go outside after dark
    * gather in a group of three or more
    * leave their owners property without a written pass
    * own weapons
    * learn to read or write
    * speak in their own language because the slave owners thought they were making a plot
    * allowed to go to church
    * allowed to talk about the bible
    * stare at a white person
    * speak without permission



    how the fuck does a culture survive through these conditions. I still cant believe this shit when I read it
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  19. reznick

    reznick New Member

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    but part of who you are, is who your parents are. and im guessing your not NA so your lineage traces back to another country. And down that line im guessing your culture wasnt obscured and lost through slavery and abduction. So you do have that culture.

    you dont have to speak a different language or wear your countries flag on your chest to be influenced by them.
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  20. mapleleaf

    mapleleaf bumpin onyx in the jag

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    dyou responded to the part of my post that wasnt a question, and not the part that was a question, i cant even respond to what i quoted until i understand what your trying to say

    but i will write this....your from the midwest right? or east coast. out here on the west, theres not as strong of a tie between your heritage and your culture. the nationalities of both my parents effected me in minute ways growing up...but i was affected by where they grew up in america. i have many different nationalities in my blood, the cultures of those nationalities do not bear any more influence on me than the cultures that i am not tied to by blood. im the first generation of both my parents familes to be out on the west and we dont celebrate any german holidays or practice and irish rituals, other than st. pattys day...but hey i celebrate cinco de mayo too.

    america=multicultural
    im influenced more by cultures that im not tied to by blood
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