Ok.. if there is no Intelligent Design...

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by IAmBenT, May 7, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    60,692
    the flaw with this is that jesus prayed to his father...Why would he pray to himself?

    He also spoke of his father being greater than him. that statement doesn't make much sense if they were one in the same
    test
  2. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    60,692
    where does the bible talk about trinity?
    test
  3. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    Several places. The 'word' trinity is not in there but theres a place where jesus the holy spirit and god are talking about what to do about the state of the corrupted world where the decision jesus would sacrifice himseof to save us from damnation. In gen. Few more places ill try an find the exact scriptures refering tp the trinity.
    test
  4. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    Ya well its just not biblical. If man is above all angelic classes jesus of course is. And man is a little lower than jesus. You can look at it as if jesus is King of Kings man is his royal court. Cus think about it angels are workers in heaven. And for us. We all have 2 personal angels ourselves that we can employ at all times through prayer thatve been with us since birth. You know after the millenium we get to judge the fallen angels.
    test
  5. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    60,692
    please do find the exact scriptures
    test
  6. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    60,692
    I don't believe that. well the latter half of it. Having personal angels doesn't make sense but God having angels watch over mankind is believable. Even after the millennium reign of Jesus, we don't judge the "fallen angels" or anyone. The bible speaks of one that will rule with him in heaven having the honor of being kings over the earth. after that, the devil is release from his prison to mislead again, etc.
    test
  7. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    "He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone. " in reference to us having gaurdian angels

    Psalm 91. He will give His angels charge over you to guard you in all your ways.

    Matthew 18:10 "The angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, And delivers them. " Psalm 34:7 "No evil shall befall you, Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling; For He shall give His angels charge over you, To keep you in all your ways. In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone."

    Theres more. But you get the idea. You can also actually employ them to do things for you in prayer.
    test
  8. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    "Our judging the fallen angels"

    The angels do a lot but do not know all there is to know. They look for the day when the elected saints will teach them the deepthings of God. 1Peter 1:12 tells us that they want to understand these things but they do not even understand why they are doing what they are doing. The angels were not promised to rule the world to come or to be sons of God (Hebrews 2:5). There will be a day that even the angelic world will be judged to see if they have obeyed the laws of God, especially the Ten Commandments. Why do angels need to be judged? Because at least one third of them have sinned and deserve death. Who will do this judging? Those who have entered into the Kingdom of God as spirit born children of God
    test
  9. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    60,692

    This is referring to Him sending angels to protect us. We don't have angel following us around at our side like you are making it seem. The angel's don't listen to prayers, only God can so really God is sending the angels to protect us.

    You are making it seems like we each have angelic body guards or something. Which isn't the case. Not to mention, the angels would only help if God tells them to despite our pleas to them.
    test
  10. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    60,692
    You realize we are not under the ten commandments any longer right? I've mentioned this before. The ten commandments were nailed to the stake with Jesus. The angels that are deserving of death will meet the same fate as Satan hence the scripture in revelations where it makes mention that satan and his demons were hurled out of heaven. This make the scripture at 2 Peter 3:13, where is talks about a new heavens, applicable.
    test
  11. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    Scriptures also speak of God using the word "Elohim" (a term for God that has a plural connotation) to describe Himself, and of using the term "us" instead of "me" when referring to Himself.

    Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

    Matthew 3:16–17 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God( holy spirit) descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

    Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit 2 Corinthians 13:14 May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. 1 Peter 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience toesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
    test
  12. lyricalpriest

    lyricalpriest Rap Games Dawson Creek

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2000
    Messages:
    24,097
    jesus show's us HOW TO PRAY when he performs the lords PRAYER. he said greater is he that is IN YOU then he that is in the world. He said the father was greater then him b/c JESUS was in human FORM and that he want's to drive home the point that we are to serve HIM in his HEAVENLY FORM and his first request was to do it by excepting christ as the messiah..
    test
  13. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Messages:
    11,469
    test
  14. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    60,692

    Just because the Bible says 'us' does not mean it's referring to a trinity. Us implies multiple people/beings. If they were the same person, he would have likely just said My.


    1: That scripture refers to Adam and Eve being kicked out of the Garden of Eden. They had partaken of the fruit from the tree, Knowledge of good and bad. Simply put, man knew good and bad. This does not mean him and Jesus are the same. The Angels all knew good and bad.

    2. Not sure what Jesus baptism had to do with a Trinity. It really support the whole, "not the same person" thing. Not sure why God would put on a charade and call himself his own son. It would have been simpler to just refer to him as God right there instead of his son

    3. This scripture speaks about 3 different things. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit. Still doesn't mention them as the same thing. In prayer, you pray to God because he is the Hearer of Prayers. In the name of his Son, which is only possible because Jesus successfully completed his task on Earth and died for our sin so that at that moment, we had a chance to be saved and for some to enter into heaven. The holy spirit is referred to as God's active force.

    John 14:26 refers to the holy spirit as a 'helper'. God uses this holy spirit to draw people to him that allow it. Imo, it can be likened to telekinesis where you control a force that is part of your power, not a separate entity. So the Holy Spirit is nothing more than a tool used by God.


    None of this proves a 'Trinity' and scriptures like this cause a contradiction

    -john 14:28-31 refers to Jesus saying that the Father was "greater than I". This doesn't make any sense if they were the same being. At this point, God would be a liar because really, the father isn't not greater than him because they are the same thing. Also, this is not referring to Jesus' physical form because he would have said 'greater than I right now' or something. Also, Jesus would not have rejected people's attempts to worship me. He told them that praise goes to one person, God. which makes sense because at Exodus 34:14 speaks about how God is a jealous God and expect only his name to be praised. The Trinity would contradict the current layout, teachings of the bible because it's just nor practiced.
    test
  15. Shadow

    Shadow Kotaro's Master

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    60,692
    see my earlier post because this 'physical form' crap lacks weight. Jesus never mentioned a difference in servitude from his physical form to his spirit form. You are reaching with this claim. No where in the bible does this even get mentioned. God is allowing his Son to rule during the Millennium Reign. This doesn't make sense if they are the same being, even in heaven. Why hand over ruler ship from ones self to ones self.

    The bible mentions how one can come to know God if they know the son. Two separate beings. For example, Your son is like you. Everything your son does is a result of how you are and how you raise him. People will know the type of person you are based on how your son is. Doesn't make you and your son the same person. Also, the bible speaks about marriage. How they become one flesh. We all know that they are not really one flesh but they act as one having similar views.
    test
  16. IAmBenT

    IAmBenT Eat a dick, faggot

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2011
    Messages:
    1,356
    Great answers from everyone, loving it.

    Props to me for creating one of the most viewed/replied threads in the sanctuary. Lets keep it up, hope we can beat the deadbirds/fish thread.

    maybe this diagram can make it a bit clearer...

    [​IMG]
    test
  17. Jay Bee

    Jay Bee Boricua

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,596
    ^^^i remember seeing this diagram b4 in sunday school. was gay then gay now
    test
  18. Jay Bee

    Jay Bee Boricua

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,596
    god has to make everything overcomplicated. too much free time. i bet he jack off a whole lot
    test
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)