No longer under law, but under grace

Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by TheBigPayback, Apr 17, 2012.

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  1. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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  2. RandomPoster

    RandomPoster New Member

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    I haven’t heard from my friend yet but his sister looked it up for me. It looks like Christian was in the early copies. In Greek it would’ve been Xristiano/v and Transliterated into Christianos and the definitions is “a follower of Christ”.
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  3. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    james 2
    My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?

    5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?

    8If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”a you are doing right. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,”b also said, “Do not murder.”c If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.
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  4. exodus 31315

    exodus 31315 Kanaan

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    which Scripture would Yashua be talking about? is it the Torah?
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  5. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    um..well that wasnt the point but yes ur right.


    i guess everyone wants to be the teacher but no one wants to learn the cirriculum.
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  6. exodus 31315

    exodus 31315 Kanaan

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    very true, i certainly don't want to play the role of teacher regarding Scripture, i fear i would only mislead as i am a humble novice

    i only wanted to clarify and allude to my interpretation, or lack of understanding, of what i quoted

    as in did Yashua just make reference to the importance of the Torah?
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  7. RandomPoster

    RandomPoster New Member

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    Hey exodus does it seem like we Christians make it seem like Jesus was opposing His Father's laws? Just wondering.
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  8. exodus 31315

    exodus 31315 Kanaan

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    it appears as though some christians present the interpretation that Yashua replaced His Father's Law and further still some would appear to elevate Yashua above or at least to the same level as His Father

    at the very least some christians almost make it seem as though the Torah need not have existed (which is as far as i know more YHWH centric) or that we don't really even need to know of/about it in order to know the Father and the Son or to receive salvation

    basically, yes to your question. only it would be some christians and i would just want to clarify it is US (as in some christians) not JESUS that makes it seem as though Jesus is opposing or replacing His Father's Law

    from the Scripture i've seen, Yashua invariably reinforces/reaffirms His Father's Law, not all the diet and related stuff but certainly the Commandments but Yashua also often references the whole Torah when he talks of the Scripture, this could involve all that diet stuff. also, the only real NT Scripture i've seen that is contrary to this is invariably words of the apostles, nothing from Yashua's mouth himself and even then i am not nearly aware enough of the context and unable to properly interpret the meaning as it is quite often ambiguous

    i know it was a simple question but i wanted to be specific in reply
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  9. RandomPoster

    RandomPoster New Member

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    Hahaha! It's all good I'm glad you were specific. I had a feeling that was where you were coming from and I agree with you that some of us do seem to set it as if The Son came to free us from The Father's laws. Even the Gospel message for some is essentially "My Father was too hard on you so I'm going to take these rules off you." That makes Jesus look awesome but the Father doesn't come off looking so hot.

    I believe that to try and use Jesus' life to do away with the Law is futile. What Jesus did was obey what the Law truly was and not the man made additions to those laws. But I do believe that He fulfilled that law and opened it up so that Paul and the Apostles can talk about Liberty in diets, ceremonies etc and deal with the more important things about loving the Father and loving people.*

    To be honest though this is one of those areas I branch off from the traditional Christian views. I believe the Father is a relational being. He relates to people on a level that they can understand. At the time of the Law there were all kinds of similar laws in place around the same time. Look up the Code of Hammurabi (sp?) sometime. He met them where they were as a civilization and developed them to the point where they could receive grace. These people pre YHWH Law were sacrificing babies and stuff so he at least got them to start sacrificing animals instead. In some cases the somewhat crazy seeming laws ultimately protected them from themselves.
    I see mankind like a person. When that person is born you deal with them as a child differently than when they become a teenager and an adult. That's how I see the Father's relationship with mankind.*
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  10. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    yes but that wasnt the topic
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  11. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    ephesians 2:15
    14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

    acts 15:10
    Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
    dont think it gets much clearer than that

    collossians 2:14
    having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.


    2 Corinthians 3
    The Glory of the New Covenant

    7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

    12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflecta the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

    colossians 2
    Freedom From Human Regulations Through Life With Christ

    6So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

    8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

    9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature,a not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, 12having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

    13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature,b God made youc alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.d

    16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

    20Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: 21“Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
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  12. exodus 31315

    exodus 31315 Kanaan

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    thread title:

    i guess i considered it relevant but even if not it was the first thing that really struck me about your quote

    Yashua again referencing the Scripture and emphasizing its importance, something that seems to be a recurring theme that and his abbreviation of the Commandments which, if i'm not wrong, still leaves at least the Commandments as our Law?
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  13. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    Ya but bro your
    Making the preposition the subject. Which no one was arguing against.
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  14. exodus 31315

    exodus 31315 Kanaan

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    i'm not arguing, only observing, but i thought the observation made is directly related to the thread title, no?

    also, what is the subject?
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  15. TheBigPayback

    TheBigPayback God Particle

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    right but the verse was posted for another implication..

    anyways moving on try post #91
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