Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Dahnamics, Sep 10, 2007.
and why? if ur not a supplement fiend less is fine...
6 excluding protein...damn lol.
only supplements i take are
GNC brand BCAA's
Flax Seed Oil
Calcium/Magnesium (only take it because i dont drink milk during the week)
oh and i used to take a fiber supplement but have since stopped.
are you looking for things to buy for yourself, because if so youll need different supplements based on what youre looking to achieve/what diet your on. some supplements are broad some vary on individualistic goals.
it depends on a lot more than that... its different for everybody depending on who they are and what the goals are
you dont NEED any supplements, most wanna be body builders buy anything they can get their hands on, and stock up on useless shit.
everything you need you can get from eating the right foods. it totally depends on what your goals are for what supps you want to take
the only one i recommend is gnc's megamen multivitamin. and thats basically it besides the protein, maybe a good mrp that gives you protein, vitamins, minerals, bcaa, glutamine
but again, i find a lot of the less knowledgable 'body builders' are on long lists of supplements when they are wasting their money.
just eat the right foods and you'll be fine.
i just take a multivitaman, 5 grams of glutamine post workout, and mrp's twice a day.
Greens+ (veggie supp)
These are tried and true staples in any regime. Creatine has been proven over and over and over to build more muscle.
BCAA increases protein synthesis and leucine has been proven to be very anabolic.
Fish oil reduces cholesterol, burns fat, improves mood and cognition, and a myriad of other benefits. Take it if you want to live longer.
ZMA has been proven numerous times to increase testosterone by up to 30%.
And of course a multi because as much as you'd like to believe you get all the nutrients and vitamins you need from food, you don't.
ZMA is a big one for me
as is Glutamine and greens
didn't know that about fish oil, ill def prolly hop on that..
and ben, i dont like takin a buncha bullshit either, im just tryna get cats to throw shit out there that i can look into, u know how the industry is, theres always some new shit poppin up, some of it is trash, but some of it can be groundbreaking as well
steve i agree with u on creatine.. that shit makes me thick as hell tho, lol.. ill prolly do cycles in the winter when im not runnin around with my shirt off, lol.. it is very effective tho and from my experience u dont lose and strength when u go off it.
ZMA (take it before bed)
Glutamine (after work out)
I try to eat a banana before bed too because the Potassium helps the muscles heal during sleep. I've never took a Potassium supplement, but I'm sure it'd help.
all BULLSH*T aside ...
I am about to start doing six week cycles of _______.
That't where you come in.
I've took creatine, trac, etc. I've had the best results with trac.
My goal is to be a beast. Have the body of a demolition man.
Run for hours, and be strong as hell, with the muscular sculpture of Hercules himself.
What should I take where I get cut, bigger, but STILL run for days.
I already have an extreme workout, now I just want a lttle edge.
H e l p m e.
Oh and I have to have this all done in 5 months.
you just need the right training regime. you dont need supplements man, just take a multivitamin, maybe an mrp, and glutamine... and of course eat well i promise.. i used to be such a hard gainer, now i go up or down at will. its all about your training regime, most people dont have the mental capacity to push themselves as hard as they need to to get real results without loading up on supps.
my trainer, tonight : "if it wasnt for me, i would have assumed you were on steroids"
diet + REALLY strong training and you can go up or down at will. i'm as "hard gainer" as it gets, but i conquered it with my training regime.
take creatine unless u can get an HGH prescription.. im hollerin at my doctor this week
Lol why are you getting an hgh prescription
That's a tough one.
You don't see many marathon runners packing any muscle, because all that running burns it up. It's just not possible.
How much running are we talking?
Where are some pics at bro? I'm not doubting you but I'm curious to see ya if your trainer would think you're on gear, plus you're always going on about your physique.
Supplements are definitely needed for most people. Most of us just aren't going to get enough creatine, or branched chain amino acids, or vitamins, or other minerals and protein from our food. Need that supplement. I'll agree that a lot of them are crap, but the ones I listed are basically essential.
Forget the HGH.
You may as well grab some Lr3-IGF1(long chain insulin like growth factor), it basically does the same thing as HGH except it's legal to purchase and a helllll of a lot cheaper. Better get on that shit before the DEA schedules it. Just be sure to read up on it a lot so you know what you're doing.
Not marathons, but on par with 6 miles under 50 minutes. Not treadmill distance, REAL distance.
Glutamine- Spares muscle during and preserves after workouts.
BCAA's - Good for lots of things
Arginine- Will give you great pumps and better production of NO in the body.
That's about it IMO for basic essentials. You could get them all for less than $30 and I would also get a good multi-vitamin. As far as fish oil, flax, etc, I'd get those too, but use them only as supplements and still eat fish, seeds and nuts.
"NO" precursors like NO-Xplode and other arginine based supps are bogus.
You gonna do this often?
Umm no, arginine works. I don't know that it works in ways that certain products might claim. But I promise arginine works to increase pumps and blood flow. The stuff I use is called Arginine Alpha-Ketoglutarate and it does work quite well.
Doctors and scientists disagree with you, as their published research indicates. If anything, arginine causes insulin secretion which causes NO production. So, really, it's the insulin, and not the arginine, giving you blood flow. If you want insulin, eat sugar, not buy packs of arginine.
Oh, and the scientists that disagree with you, here are some of the works...
1. Adams MR, Forsyth CJ, Jessup W, Robinson J, Celermajer DS. Oral -arginine inhibits platelet aggregation but does not enhance endothelium-dependent dilation in healthy young men. J. Am. Coll. Cardiol. 26 (1995), pp. 1054â€”1061
2. Baron AD. Hemodynamic actions of insulin. Am J Physiol. 1994 Aug;267(2 Pt 1):E187-202
3. Baron AD, Tarshoby M, Hook G, Lazaridis EN, Cronin J, Johnson A, Steinberg HO. Interaction between insulin sensitivity and muscle perfusion on glucose uptake in human skeletal muscle: evidence for capillary recruitment. Diabetes. 2000 May;49(5):768-74
4. Beaumier L, Castillo L, Ajami AM, Young VR. Urea cycle intermediate kinetics and nitrate excretion at normal and "therapeutic" intakes of arginine in humans. Am J Physiol. 1995 Nov;269(5 Pt 1):E884-96
5. Besset A, Bonardet A, Rondouin G, Descomps B, Passouant P. Increase in sleep related GH and Prl secretion after chronic arginine aspartate administration in man. Acta Endocrinol (Copenh). 1982 Jan;99(1):18-23
6. Bode-Boger SM, Boger RH, Galland A, Tsikas D, Frolich JC. L-arginine-induced vasodilation in healthy humans: pharmacokinetic-pharmacodynamic relationship. Br J Clin Pharmacol. 1998 Nov;46(5):489-97
7. Buvat J, Lemaire A. Endocrine screening in 1,022 men with erectile dysfunction: clinical significance and cost-effective strategy. J Urol. 1997 Nov;158(5):1764-7
8. Campbell B, Baer J, Roberts M, Vacanti T, Marcello B, Thomas A, Kerksick C, Wilborn, C, Rohle D, Taylor L, Rasmussen C, Greenwood M, Wilson R, Kreider R. Effects of arginine alpha-ketoglutarate supplementation on body composition and training adaptations. Sports Nutrition Review Journal 1 (1): S10, 2004
9. Castillo L, Sanchez M, Vogt J, Chapman TE, DeRojas-Walker TC, Tannenbaum SR, Ajami AM, Young VR. Plasma arginine, citrulline, and ornithine kinetics in adults, with observations on nitric oxide synthesis. Am J Physiol. 1995 Feb;268(2 Pt 1):E360-7
10. Chaput de Saintonge DM, Herxheimer A. Harnessing placebo effects in health care Lancet. 1994 Oct 8;344(8928):995-8
11. Chin-Dusting JP, Alexander CT, Arnold PJ, Hodgson WC, Lux AS, Jennings GL. Effects of in vivo and in vitro -arginine supplementation on healthy human vessels. J. Cardiovasc. Pharmacol. 28 (1996), pp. 158â€”166
12. Chin-Dusting JP, Kaye DM, Lefkovits J, Wong J, Bergin P, Jennings GL. Dietary supplementation with -arginine fails to restore endothelial function in forearm resistance arteries in patients with severe heart failure. J. Am. Coll. Cardiol. 27 (1996), pp. 1207â€”1213
13. Dela F, Mikines KJ, Tronier B, Galbo H. Diminished arginine-stimulated insulin secretion in trained men. J Appl Physiol. 1990 Jul;69(1):261-7
14. Gater DR, Gater DA, Uribe JM, Bunt JC. Effects of arginine/lysine supplementation and resistance training on glucose tolerance. J Appl Physiol. 1992 Apr;72(4):1279-84
15. Giugliano D, Marfella R, Verrazzo G, Acampora R, Coppola L, Cozzolino D, D'Onofrio F The vascular effects of L-Arginine in humans. The role of endogenous insulin. J Clin Invest. 1997 Feb 1;99(3):433-8
16. Hardin DS, Azzarelli B, Edwards J, Wigglesworth J, Maianu L, Brechtel G, Johnson A, Baron A, Garvey WT. Mechanisms of enhanced insulin sensitivity in endurance-trained athletes: effects on blood flow and differential expression of GLUT 4 in skeletal muscles. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1995 Aug;80(8):2437-46
17. Hishikawa K, Nakaki T, Tsuda M, Esumi H, Ohshima H, Suzuki H, Saruta T, Kato R. Effect of systemic L-arginine administration on hemodynamics and nitric oxide release in man. Jpn Heart J. 1992 Jan;33(1):41-8
18. Kerksick C, Campbell B, Taylor L., Wilborn C, Rasmussen C, Vacanti T, Greenwood M, Bowden R, Wilson R, Kreider R. Pharmacokinetic profile of time released and non-time released Arginine. Sports Nutrition Review Journal 1 (1): S9, 2004
19. Kirsch I, and Sapirstein G. Listening to Prozac but Hearing Placebo:
A Meta-Analysis of Antidepressant Medication Prevention & Treatment, Volume 1, Article 0002a, posted June 26, 1998
20. Koopman R, Wagenmakers AJ, Manders RJ, Zorenc AH, Senden JM, Gorselink M, Keizer HA, van Loon LJ. The combined ingestion of protein and free leucine with carbohydrate increases post-exercise muscle protein synthesis in vivo in male subjects. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. In Press 2005
21. Kurz S, Harrison DG. Insulin and the arginine paradox. J Clin Invest. 1997 Feb 1;99(3):369-70
22. Ivy JL, Goforth HW Jr, Damon BM, McCauley TR, Parsons EC, Price TB.Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement. J Appl Physiol. 2002 Oct;93(4):1337-44
23. Macdonald MJ, Fahien LA, Brown LJ, Hasan NM, Buss JD, Kendrick MA. Perspective: emerging evidence for signaling roles of mitochondrial anaplerotic products in insulin secretion Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 288: E1-E15, 2005
24. Marcell TJ, Taaffe DR, Hawkins SA, Tarpenning KM, Pyka G, Kohlmeier L, Wiswell RA, Marcus R. Oral arginine does not stimulate basal or augment exercise-induced GH secretion in either young or old adults. J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 1999 Aug;54(8):M395-9
25. Richmonds CR, Kaminski HJ. Nitric oxide synthase expression and effects of nitric oxide modulation on contractility of rat extraocular muscle., FASEB J. 2001 Aug;15(10):1764-70
26. Robinson TM, Sewell DA, Greenhaff PL. L-arginine ingestion after rest and exercise: effects on glucose disposal. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Aug;35(8):1309-15
27. Steinberg HO, Brechtel G, Johnson A, Fineberg N, Baron AD. Insulin-mediated skeletal muscle vasodilation is nitric oxide dependent. A novel action of insulin to increase nitric oxide release. Clin Invest. 1994 Sep;94(3):1172-9
before and after each incremental exercise test, concentrations of hGH, glucagon, testosterone, cortisol, ferritine, lactate, and urea were measured. Compared to placebo, no significant differences on endurance performance (VO(2)peak, time to exhaustion), endocrine (concentration of hGH, glucagon, cortisol, and testosterone) and metabolic parameters (concentration of lactate, ferritine, and urea) were found after chronic arginine aspartate supplementation. The chronic intake of arginine asparate during four weeks by male endurance athletes showed independent of dosage no influence on performance, selected metabolic or endocrine parameters.
Consequently, there seems to be no apparent reason why the supplementation of arginine aspartate should be an effective ergogenic aid. The practice of using arginine aspartate as potential ergogenics should be critically reevaluated.
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