Discussion in 'Hip-Hop Central' started by .:Pain:., Oct 16, 2006.
this isn't even worth entertaining anymore... Rakim > anything that runs in your family
^Great contribution you stupid fuck...
old skool rocks the house. New skool gansta is just wack - totally dumb rap. It's shameful
That innovation might be the most prevalent in all of Rap today.
That's pioneering if I've ever seen it.
LL was masterful at having a sensitive side that women could follow yet being 'hard' enough that men weren't ashamed of buying albums that had that type material on them. He was about as R&B as Anthony Kiedis.
Right. Canibus was a herb. As was Kool Moe Dee. [/sarcasm]
I'd love to see your collection of Rap music.
I'm not sure how this changes the fact that he's still highly respected among his contemporaries in the Rap genre. Still highly respected despite the fact that he hasn't had a major release in, well, a long time...
Corny lyrics that have been reused by some of the most respected lyricists in the business 20 years later. Sounds about right...
Again, LL has a legacy in Rap that simply can't be argued with.
The fact that you're even trying to is a glaring indication of the kind of historical base you really have of this thing called Rap.
He's THE most battle-tested emcee in the business.
You can't name a rapper with more commercial success.
You can't name a rapper with as many years in the business.
He inspired arguably the biggest and longest running trend in the genre.
The first Rap artist in the MTV Unplugged series.
I could go on, but it won't much matter...
Pain , you are a fucking idiot.
Rakim >>>>>> your family's existence + Slug
Your post is so short sighted. First you have to consider that what is old school. To a lot of hip hop fans Wu is old school. The reason that this is important is that rap is constantly evolving. That is why your comparison is not fair. I agree if your only point is that if you listen to EPMD's lyrics versus The Roots that they don't match up. You have to keep in my mind that shit changes. It was hot for that moment in time. Look back at some videos from the late nineties...muthafuckas was rockin biking shorts. That was hot for that moment in time. A linemen from the old days in football would get shitted on now just due to mere size....does that mean they sucked....no.
Just say that hip hop has gotten better. No need to make yourself look stupid by saying they weren't lyricist.
Definately not, NWA were the biggest pioneers, all you hear nowadays is gangsta rap. Love songs are sort of "gangstafied" for the most part, mysoginistic (sp?). When LL wrote a love song, he wrote a LOVE song, not a "girl I want to fuck you in you onion booty."
Which is why I said, and I quote, "for the most part." Kool Moe Dee also wasn't on LL's level lyrically when that shit started. It would be like Serius Jones battling a battle rapper from the mid to early nineties.
I only consider 5 albums to be classic.
I'm not saying it does. I'm just saying that his influence is slowly dieing.
lol, all the sudden you imply I don't know hip-hop because I think a corny rappers lyrics are corny? Sorry my view of lyricism isn't skewed by loyalty to the "old school."
Eminem? Cassidy? Jae Millz? All have battled more than LL. All built their reputation on battling.
Jay-Z, Eminem, Biggie, Tupac.
Gangstarr contends, not only that, but their music is still ill as fuck.
NWA. Love songs aren't and never were a trend. But I already explained why.
Why does that matter?
This would be like the thirteenth time responding to this arguement (shit, even that same analogy was used), so just go back read if you want, if you don't, then I don't care.
That would make me look stupid, which is why I didn't say it. I said, or implied, that lyricists of today are far beyond the lyricists of yesterday.
You not only don't know rap but you obviously don't care to know. If it was said in previous replies more than once maybe your bitch ass didn't get it the first time. You are wrong, end of story.
my fucking heart broke when i saw slug>rakim...
what a fucking joke.
pain while u are correct in your thoughts that eminem cassidy jae millz have more battles under there belt then ll you are incorrect in thinking they are superior battlers..eminem MAYBE, but noone in hip hop has battled more people that are at a high level of skill then ll..NOONE
and thief shut the fuck up with the white boy not knowing anything angle..
Sure that makes sense. I mean, it can't be that a bunch of pretentious know it alls came in thinking their arguement was solid gold, when it was dashed with less than paragraph. I mean, it's not like every person that brought that up subsequently dropped that arguement. It can't be that.
High level? Maybe at the time they were considered high level...
You're focusing only one love songs... that may have been LL's shtick... but the whole point is that he opened the door for MC's to express their innermost feelings and be vulnerable, which scores of "gangsta rappers" have followed... Tupac, Jay Z, DMX, Nas, Ja Rule, etc.
Just like Melle Mel opened the door for "conscious rap."
Good point... but it should credit his being original or innovative.
True... I should've qualified it by saying "solo."
Yeah, Kurt was flamboyant like Ric Flair... but LL had mad bravado, I guess that's what I really meant... he was the first to bring attitude.
Nah, that's Ja Rule... R&B artists sing, LL only rapped. So I guess Pac, Jay Z, Eminem, Nas, and DMX were "R&B artists" as well because they had sensitive material, too... you're focusing only on love songs, b.
In your opinion... but they were established rappers on majors... those other cats you listed battled no-names. Who gets more credibility? A no-name street rapper or a major rapper with albums and a career?
True... but classic status tend to have more weight if you can get the fans, critics and other musicians to agree on it... LL achieves that with "Radio," "Bigger and Deffer," and "Mama Said Knock You Out." So just because it's your opinion doesn't negate the classic status.
compared to the cats jae millz and cassidy have battled and for the most part eminem the people ll battled are by far better emcees then the opponents of the 3 named.
canibus alone shits on everyone eminem, jae millz, and cassidy have ever battled
I'd still argue the point. Because "Gangsta Rap" only represents a portion of the culture-at-large. Rap ballads transcend any particular type of rap. You make a good point though. Though I'm sure Schoolly D and Ice T would fight for a bit more credit for having inspired reality-rap offerings.
Actually it's based around most of what you've said in this thread.
And that deals in a lot more than just your view of someone's lyrics.
Who have any of them battled of note?
Millz has battled acts like Murda Mook...
He isn't exactly a household name.
They aren't? Gee that's strange.
I could quickly name about a dozen love songs that have been released.
That wasn't my point though. What I was trying to say is that LL's style of love song is only replicated mainly by underground rappers, who actually express their feelings of love, rather than lust.
You're right, n I've never tried to strip LL of that credibility.
I can agree with that.
No, Pac, Jay-Z, Eminem, Nas, and DMX didn't build an entire mainstream career off of love songs. While LL didn't build his career completely on love songs, it is easy to see that without them, he would've never even come close to the level he eventually got to. If all those other artists never wrote a love song, most fans wouldn't even have noticed.
When it comes to battling, I give more credit to the street rappers who've battled countless numbers of nameless emcees than the major rapper who battled a couple wash up rappers and one very annoying and overrated rapper.
But the thing is, outside of RM, I've never heard someone call any of those albums classic.
Canibus doesn't shit on anybody, he eats niggas asses.
True, but that doesn't destroy the fact that 99% of mainstream love songs are mysoginistic, therefore aren't really love songs. Rap ballads are fewer and farther between every year.
My arguement is and always has been centered around lyricism.
Most of the time, the best battle rappers never make it to be household names. Serius Jones and Jin are perfect examples. I don't give a fuck how many famous rappers LL battled, he never battled anyone with the freestyle battle skills of Murda Mook or Jae Millz.
I told you I explained why already....
I should've qualified that.
Who's had comparable commercial success over an extensive period?
Shorten that list now to Jay and Eminem.
That's pretty elite company wouldn't you say?
Separate names with a comma.