My Bullied Son's Last Day on Earth

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Radium, Apr 26, 2009.

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  1. Radium

    Radium f k

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    I agree

    and expanding your point

    bullying can be partially broken down by looking at the most glaring things at the surface

    firstly bullying only becomes a problem when its a prolonged harassment and not a one-off/one-time thing. so this must mean that the kid who is being bullied is unable to stop harassment from the bully and as a result the bullying becomes prolonged. thus bullying only seems to have a truly damaging effect when its allowed to be drawn out and prolonged where its allowed to then spiral into a larger problem

    2 things happen from this.

    the bully will have his behavior reinforced by going unpunished and the prolonged harassment endured by the bullied will mount possibly causing them to commit horrible acts. thus both will continue further down these paths like rain drops being guided by an invisible hand down a window pane through life.

    both things are bad. both things should be stopped.

    so the question becomes how to stop bullying from becoming prolonged to end the cycle which reinforces the bully while damaging the bullied

    equip kids (like you had proposed) with the right tools to assert themselves. a bully can only bully a weaker or lesser person (like dex who apparently was a bully when he was younger) as this allows them to attack others without any fear of retaliatory action. if the threat of retaliatory action exists a bully wont 1) initially have a target and 2) be unable to prolong their bullying as the bullying is rejected from onset

    a discourse on how to specifically get kids to better "assert themselves" is needed.

    back when i was like 6 my parents got divorced splitting the family in half and i started going to a new school. at this time in my life i spent most of my time completely alone both at home and at school. i was pretty weak and wasnt getting on well at home or at school. i was bullied during this time not roughly but enough to know the feeling well. looking back at the situation i can see now why that had happened and why i was targeted. I feel that the primary thing w/ a bully is that they see a weakness in you that they themselves hate. you represent that to them. as such you become an object of their hate. perhaps they personally dislike weakness and as such they attack you as you represent this to them. to do this, of course, you must first be completely dehumanized by them so that in their minds you are stripped of all value you possess as a human and become simply an object to be toyed with.

    take dex for example.

    he might have looked at me then and realized some weakness to make him dehumanize and then bully me when i was 6 for those reasons. however today if he looked at me for only two seconds he would realize just as quickly that i could physically destroy him just as fast. his bravado disappears.

    i havent expanded on this very far yet but i feel deep down that bullies can only be truly defeated by being strong. perhaps you don't need to be physically powerful (however of course they would stop messing with you if you are) but asserting yourself is the best weapon against a bully. this violates the image they have in their minds of you and forces them to redefine your role in their private self absorbed worlds. you must not let them turn you into an object; a toy.

    its really sad that there are people like that in the world but we must realize that and learn to find a way to be stronger than them....
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  2. Radium

    Radium f k

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    yo an ummm...

    lakers 09 champs

    i just had to tell it kobe time finally has come
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  3. Radium

    Radium f k

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    yes i could tell by your post you were completely devoid of anything meaningful to add to this

    so you think allowing bullies and the bullied to exist in this world unchecked is oK. evil must be punished. at every single turn.

    you have conceded that there may be a problem underlying "prior to the bullying"

    is this not a problem to you too?

    will you yet again...

    fail to add anything meaningful towards that particular problem too just as you already failed to add anything meaningful to the problems presented in this thread?
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  4. Bar nigga

    Bar nigga 314 STL Ancient of daze..

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    what a fucked up story
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  5. Mcg-

    Mcg- New Member

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    I'm sorry, but the idea that kids should deal with bullying, and if they deal badly with it is their fault, is BS.

    First,
    Let's say you just got an operation to get your appendix removed. there is something wrong with you. Out of nowhere, someone decides to punch you in the stomach.
    You die.
    Should they be responsible for your death? Should they be held criminally liable? civily?
    For part or all of the fault? Of course the person who punched you would be liable.

    Why should children have any less rights than adults? The fact that a kid may be say - come from a broken home and therefore have low self esteem already - only to be beaten by a bully at school, resulting in him killing himself, does not absolve the bullier from fault.

    Second,
    Even if the bullied person turns the experience into a positive, as long as the bullied person suffered damage at some time, the bully is responsible.
    Lets say You rob me, i then, on the way to the police station to report you, find a way to the police station and win $1000000. Clearly here I am better off. But is the thief absolved of criminal and civil responsibility for robbing me? no. the 2 events are separate.
    If a kid happens to use being bullied as a way to grow personally, this does not absolve the bully from responsibility. This does not strip the bullied child of his human rights. Why should children have less rights than adults?
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  6. Mcg-

    Mcg- New Member

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    Rad: i think your exactly right. Its as bad psychologically for the bully as it is for the bullied, maybe even worse in the long run. Society allows for timid people, some even prosper; it does not allow for people who assault/steal/etc from other people, they end up in jail. the problem needs to be nipped in the butt as much for the bully as it does for the bullied.

    Another interesting question is, what if a bully, who winds up in jail etc... ends up suuing the school he was at for failing to punish him in his youth. I don't think it would get through, but its interesting to think about. What if he sued in a class action, along with other bullies/bullied persons?
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  7. Radium

    Radium f k

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    no you're right about children being able to sue for bullying. i was just saying how this in itself is not enough. but i think you already said something like that earlier too.

    the general strategy to take would seem to be that of trying to teach kids about bullies/how to assert themselves and - as a last resort - allowing them to sue a bully as a greater punishment to remind the bullies to stay in check. i think its necessary to have a major punishment hanging over their heads to impress the importance of the matter and consequences of such things. a sort of death penalty equivalent - in this case at least.

    this is how its done in the adult world. seems to work well there.

    I think both parts of that strategy support each other and work together well. a sort of 1-2 punch. the only real mess would be trying to dig in and figure out the problem of teaching kids how to deal with bullies.

    i think that part has a danger to be flubbed and end up ineffective if handled the wrong way.
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  8. reggie_jax

    reggie_jax rapper noyd

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    my original post was a joke, bad as it may have been. i'm sorry it offended you, and i'm sorry you got picked on at school.
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  9. Radium

    Radium f k

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    more unnecessary words from you
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  10. Bar nigga

    Bar nigga 314 STL Ancient of daze..

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    kid shoulda learned how to fight and start beatin the sleeves off niggaz
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  11. ~Eloquent

    ~Eloquent Narcissistic....

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    just kids mindset though they dont know any better
    if they dont understand someone or something they think its wrong
    the 11 year old wasnt old enough to reason either what suicide would do to his mom and sister
    you really cant teach reasoning you can set examples but kids will pick up on all of the examples they can get....good or bad

    once people get older then they can realize what they do to others why some still wont give a shit at least some of the kids that were bullied,when they get older,they can at least reason with being around for the people that do love them,

    and not always do kids get good examples how to interact with others anyways
    some older people are still as immature and irresponsible as some kids that have to learn from their mistakes first

    i remember i hated going to middle school cuz i was really small and people would fuck with me sometimes
    but when they saw it didnt effect me as much then they would just stop.....
    some kids though they just got to learn to control their sensitivity in life to
    when their 11 or 12 they cant really know that though
    but too much sensitivity makes you a big target around that age...

    school officals always put bullying to the side though
    then when all the school shootings went down, you would think that would change peoples minds about bullying and some of the stuff they say,but it didnt,still same shit you know....
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  12. Earwitness

    Earwitness New Member

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    The school board can say they provide this and look out for that, truth is that they don't pay attention to what's going on beneath the surface. It isn't as if bullies are breaking down kids in front of staff, though. It's usually all behind closed doors, so I can't really tear them down for not seeing it if nothing is brought to their attention by the students.

    Welcome to America, you've got to be hard-shelled starting at very early age unless someone has the cash to tuck you away from society and everything it can/will throw at you. Do I think this is sad? Definitely for the children who get dumped into the 'outcast' section of the social circle.

    I watched as all the police cars, EMT units, etc. pulled up and lined the entire street in front of my home after a 17 year old hung himself in his bedroom with a dog chain. I didn't really know him, though my friends' younger brothers all went to school with him. I later found out that his girlfriend had broken up with him and shortly thereafter he had an argument with his mother, most likely stemmed from the break up.

    It made me wonder about all the things I never would've seen/accomplished had I taken my life after my own break up with a girl at that age. Seventeen? Your life hasn't even started yet. I won't even talk about eleven, just sad. These kids don't know what they threw away. I don't even really remember what my classmates were like at eleven. Hell, I'm lucky to remember the college students who were around me. Life is so much bigger than this.
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  13. Superman70

    Superman70 edited

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    sad story.
    interesting discussion.
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  14. Poetic Concept

    Poetic Concept New Member

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    I don't think this problem is preventable, parents have an obligation to maintain the self-esteem of their child, you cannot blame the school, because when they did confront the situation all it did was lead to more ridicule, not only was he "a fag" but a "snitch" and so on.

    True in order to confront a situation like this the parents need to talk to both the school and each other. The parents are the ones responsible for their childrens well-being and actions.

    The school should only be the mediator between parents there are so many children that attend this school with an array of problems, and bulling is probably not a major priority nor should it be. We all have an obligation to tell our sons and daughters everyday how beautiful they are so when someone calls them names they have enough self-esteem to blow it off and your children should trust you enough to come to you with their problems if it begins to depress them and then it is your responsiblity not someone who works a 9-5 with their own problems who is trying to juggle paper work, write-ups, suspension, teaching, and etc... to solve.

    This problem had to be lingering and constant and it must have taken out a toll from them, I find it hard to believe that their wasn't consistant signs that would have indicated to the parent that their child was struggling with the ridcule they were facing. And if it got too bad change schools! Or make some change Im sorry to say this but the parent are the ones that were negligent!
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  15. Radium

    Radium f k

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    and

    what if

    the child has bad parents?

    should we just abandon the child then? yes you have bad parents who arent there for you but tough luck? you should just deal with that on your own right?

    and so we send the child out weakly equipped into an uncaring society that doesnt love him

    and he will bounce around in this society from place to place w/ no one ever caring enough to equip him w/ the necessary tools and knowledge to live effectively in society

    that is wrong.

    not all parents are good parents. besides the parents, the only group with the power to teach the child how to live effectively in society is the school.

    this responsibility must be embraced.
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  16. Poetic Concept

    Poetic Concept New Member

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    ^ Embraced by who?

    When a child has "bad" parents whether it be drug addicted or, neglectful, or lazy, and so on. When a school is presented with a child like that, and their are many, they have an obligation only to mediate. They have the option to both talk to the parents or social services. Both of these students had middle class parents, good structure based school however the pressure put on them to brush it off, was placed on them by the parents. The parents should have stood out and if they had bad parents it is STILL THE PARENTS FAULT! It is never the schools unless they never addressed the situation they did and both parents were told in each case, so they did their job its time for PARENTS to start doing theirs.
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  17. Radium

    Radium f k

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    i should have required you to syllogistically break down my argument as part of your response to demonstrate how clearly everything i just said went over your head

    you are an idiot
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  18. identity-X

    identity-X No Talent Assclown

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    not a single mention of gender socialization and masculinities in the article OR this discussion?
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  19. Radium

    Radium f k

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    and not a single attempt to elaborate by you
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  20. identity-X

    identity-X No Talent Assclown

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    here's a good starting point --> http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=masculinity gender suicide school&btnG=Search

    Or a great documentary I show in some of my classes called "Tough Guise". Video 5 is particularly applicable.

    [youtube]DP1ACIUHhp4[/youtube]

    [youtube]_8OTkLc3ZQc[/youtube]

    [youtube]jVL8bqb2xg0[/youtube]

    [youtube]UfopIEkpjcg[/youtube]

    [youtube]gNPrH_LOcJU[/youtube]

    [youtube]EFEzQv806wI[/youtube]

    [youtube]9qUBV43YnJE[/youtube]

    [youtube]fUvaxOU2sbU[/youtube]
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