"muslim" radicals are referred to as "wahhabi's"

Discussion in 'IntroSpectrum' started by Thrilla-Ali, Mar 14, 2007.

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  1. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    Extremists follow the same core values, which are the total opposite of orthodox islam (sunna wal juma).

    An insulting term, "wahhabi" is often used to describe such people in the mainstream muslim communities now-a-days, which derives from Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab.

    more on muhammad wahhab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_ibn_Abd_al_Wahhab

    All extremists claim to be purifying, and restoring original Islam, but in actuality they're deviating from it.

    Osama Bin Laden and Al-Zakhari were strong followers of "Qutbism"

    more on qutbism To learn more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutbism

    Qutbism believes in offensive wars instead of the traditional defensive wars, which traditional orthodox muslims follow.

    The Taliban (Mullah Omar), Qutbists (Osama, Zakhari etc..) are all "wahhabis" because all share the same core values, which are radical in belief.


    Wahhabi's say they're "Salafi" muslims, but in actuality they're not. People often get confused with the terms "salafi" and "wahhabi" and often categorize them as the same. Wahhabism is a particular orientation running within Salafism, but it isn't real salafism, and the wahhabi's try to pull the wool over people's eye's by
    referring to themselves as salafi's when they're really not (and it shows through their terrorist actions).

    more on salafi's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi


    All branches of extremsim share the same core values, and they're referred to as "wahhabi's" by the orthodox muslim communities.
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  2. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    Who are you trying to convince? There are only a handful of people on this board who will even read this and only one (maybe two) who will actually think about it after reading it and they likely already look past religion and see the spirit.

    From my personal experience, religious talk is a waste of time. If you have a religion, then practice it in private and keep your knowledge on your religion close to your heart. In other words, if you believe something and claim it as your faith, then live it. Stop talking about living it. Those who want to know, will ask. If they don't ask, they don't want to know.
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  3. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    ^ it's just for reference, for people like menaz, whether they read it or not, i can refer them to this thread the next time someone accuses islam of being some kind of radical "evil" religion.
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  4. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    All modern religions are what people call "evil" . . .
    Religion is nonsense. Faith and Actions are what matters, not titles.
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  5. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    ^ you really need to improve on how you correspond with others. You're forcing your opinion upon me, you know that right? We're all opinionated, and i respect your opinion as long as it doesn't disrespect my beliefs. However, anyone is entitled to believe in anything they want, and say whatever they want, which i fully understand, but saying all modern religions are "evil" is just something i don't think is right, and something you seem unwilling to accept (you keep attacking my faith, and it's like your trying to force me to believe your "dogma" by singing the same song over-and-over again in multitudes).
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  6. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    No need to redirect me to this thread. I'll dead this shit right now.
    WOW the source is WIKIPEIDA! LOL!

    Lets try critrical thinking shall we?

    wahhabi's Are for what? that's right, Traditional Islam as stated in the Quran and Hadith. This Means, They wish to keep islam as Mohammad made it. So What you have pointed out? Wahhabi thought and traditional Islam Are similar. This Highjacking of your religion stuff, Is a complete farce, you just proved it. LOL!

    If you were a reader and not a copy and paste moron, you would be able to Analyze.

    I wasn't even going to comment, But You seem to think redirecting me to this thread helps you in some way, and it doesn't. It makes my argument for me.


    Azue, he is all yours if you even care.
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  7. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    Why does he need to Improve on how he communicates with others?
    Is that translation for, don't question Islam, because islam is above questioning? Your logic is, you can believe in what you want, Just don't disbelieve against islam, or else suffer.LOL! Azue is alot of things, However, he communicates fine. It's you who doesn't communicate well. Infact, You don't communicate at all. It's not his opinion, he is telling the truth about Islamic Religion and other religions as well. You're the only one who is giving out Opinionated answers. He's not giving an Opinion he is giving the facts.

    I'ma rationale and logic thinker. You must be broken down, inorder to build yourself back up. Because you have been brainwashed. You're like an over zealous democrat of america trying to defend clinton on whitewater. The bullshit you provide reads like comedy.
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  8. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    I am responding to you as I would anybody else, from any other religion, whether they be somebody who hates me or somebody who loves me. When it comes to God I don't take sides. All religions are organized and controlled by other men to control other men and women. That is the only purpose of organized religion.

    If you noticed, I did not call religion evil. I said that it is what many people call evil. I do not believe in evil. There are people who are lost and their minds have become muddled with nonsense. Then there are people who know the truth and their minds are clear. Many people who claim to know the truth are actually muddled. Religions create divisions and I am for the Unity of the world and Peace, Equality, Compassion, Forgiveness and Love. Religions cannot create that because they depend upon divided minds who are willing to turn to them for answers to questions that can only be answered within each individual person.

    I could care less what you "believe." I am not concerned with your beliefs. I am concerned with the truth and the truth does not require your belief. It requires your knowledge. YHVH has always been, YHWH is and YHYH will always be. God is One and God will always be One. We all come from God and will return to God. God is not a Father figure in the sky, God is the energy that charges everything in the Universe, including us. That is not a belief, that is a fact which a branch of Physics is working diligently to prove. There is no other God. If we all connect to the gods (lesser energies) within us, they are connected to the greater energy outside of us and thus we will all be One and the Kingdom of God will come to the World. If we hold on to religions, then we will remain trapped in divisions and wars will continue.

    I don't teach any "Dogmas" . . . Dogmas are what religions depend on. I teach God and I teach out connection and unity with God. That is not a Dogma. That is a fact. It is not a belief. It is truth. There is a difference between believe and knowledge. "Abandon rote learning and all its vexations." - Lao Tzu
    Religion is rote learning. You are learning stories about heros who are gone. Their energy is no longer in those forms and those forms are nothing but bones and dust. You are living in the past so long as you live in religion. Live in the present and prepare for the future by living now and living completely in the present. Know the past, but don't try to live in it. That is impossible. Islam is a dying religion. Clerics are trying to maintain it because it clearly cannot remain in tact, as it was. The world has changed too much. Religion was never intended to be permenantly organized in one way. If humanity grows and evolves then their religions must evolve too and if their prophets preached a religion that cannot evolve, then he preached a religion that is destined to die, and die it will.

    Yeshua did not teach Christianity or Judaism.
    Buddha did not teach Buddhism.
    Lao Tzu did not teach Taoism.
    They taught the truth as it was, is and always will be. Other people built religions around them and their message. That shows that they did not understand the message. If three men from three different parts of the world, at three different time periods could teach the same message in different languages and using different examples, and three different religions have arisen from them (all with their own various different religions) then you know that the truth is in the message, not the religion. What is their message?

    Islam was never just a message. Mohammed went up to the cave and planned for it to be a religion. He intended on creating a religion from the beginning. That is one of the HUGE differences between him and the others. They did not create religions. They taught love, compassion, forgiveness, peace and equality between human beings. He taught religion.

    .
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  9. Yahunyahti

    Yahunyahti New Member

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    There are countless flaws in Islam. I am not attacking your beliefs. I am showing you that your beliefs are wrong. In the world today people want to be lied to. The Liberal World has told them, "You are allowed to believe whatever you wish and others have to respect your beliefs, even if they are wrong." I respect the truth. I don't care about beliefs. Beliefs mean absolutely nothing to me. If a belief is wrong, then I will challenge it because I care about the person who is living in a false reality. We cannot respect illogical beliefs. We cannot do this. If you believe in God then you cannot know God. Knowledge trumps belief. I don't believe in God. I know God. And God provided (whether you call it creation or evolution) us with the ability to reason and use logic to solve our problems. When you accept a religion, you are accepting dogmas created by other men. I do not offer you dogmas. I do not offer you religions. I offer you the truth.

    If you are going to ever KNOW (not believe) God, you MUST experience God for your self. There are many techniques for bringing this about. There are two types of minds. There are receiving minds and there are aggressive minds. Receiving minds need Tantric Techniques. Aggressive minds need Yoga Techniques. Yoga teaches to conquer your urges by understand them. Tantra teaches to yield to them and understand them for what they are. They use different approaches but end up in the same place. There are many different techniques but none of them can be done as a group. The experience is not a group experience. It is a singular experience. When two or more who have experienced God are together, the power that they have is much stronger and the peace that they carry with them is very very powerful. But no two people can experience God, for the FIRST time, together. After the first time, yes.

    I am not concerned with "believers" and "disbelievers." You are a believer. Menaz is a disbeliever. You believe that Allah is God and everything in the Quran is from Allah, not Mohammed. Menaz believes that Mohammed was a fraud and everything in the Quran is his words. You believe in God and Menaz believes that God is very unlikely, unless God can be proven. Neither one of you have true Knowledge on the subject. Belief is not knowledge. That is not an insult. It is a fact. Menaz does not know God. He will tell you that himself. You do not know God, you believe in God but you do not realize that your belief is not knowledge. You and Menaz are in the same boat and neither of you have paddles. The difference is that he can acknowledge he doesn't the paddles (in this metaphor of course, with paddles being the Spirit and God). You however refuse to admit that you have no paddles. Menaz is screaming at you, "We don't have any fucking paddles! Accept it! Goddamn man, open your eyes!" You are responding by saying, "I believe in Allah and you are praying." He's angry and you're naive.

    Menaz is right about one thing. Until you have seen God, God does not exist. Until you have felt God, God does not exist. Until you have heard God, God does not exist. Belief means absolutely nothing. If it does, then there is no truth and all the various goofy religions and cults around the world must be simultaneously accepted as equals and that would be impossible. I cannot accept homosexuality. I know it is a useless form of sex. I cannot accept it. Spiritually and Logically it is a foolish practice. Nothing can come from it. You are telling me that I have to accept homosexuality. I can't do that. I can accept the person as a human being and love them just as I would a straight person, as a person. But,I cannot accept their meaningless way of living. Religion and belief are meaningless to me. I cannot accept them. Why is the message not enough? The message is all you need. The experience is all you need.

    You cannot know God unless you have experienced God for yourself. In fact, you cannot know anything unless you have experienced it for yourself. Menaz is right.
    Much of what Menaz says about the world around us is his beliefs. His science is his religion. It is no different. He just cannot see that it is. Quoting scientists who have experienced their studies is not experiencing it for yourself. That requires you to believe them and the books that they provide. It is no different than accepting what an Imam says he experienced, except scientists provide visuals. People do not ask, how do I know these visuals are real? People do not realize that 90% of NASA's space photos are reconstructed images, which have been colored in by computer and given to the people. People don't realize this. They believe what scientists tell them. They believe the modern educational system like a Muslim does a Cleric is Scholar.

    I will tell you and Menaz the same thing. Neither of you know the truth. I cannot prove the truth to you because you must experience the truth for your self. I can tell you HOW to experience the truth. I can give you the directions, but you have to do the expirement and you cannot use a lab rat. You must go through it yourself. That is the only way.

    I'm not going to argue with you about your religion. I'm not going to go back and forth with you about your beliefs. I am telling you that they did not teach the same message. I have shown you that they do not teach the same message. What you do next is up to you. No man can teach you the truth. Men (or Women) can only guide you onto the path. There is only one Teacher and that is Ruach HaKodesh (The Holy Spirit).

    I just realized that there is a PM in my box so I'll stop here and check that
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  10. Thrilla-Ali

    Thrilla-Ali Dapper Don

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    So when a preacher in Pennsylvania wants to stone rebellious teens to death, does that mean christianity is a extremist religion too? Wahabi's are a minority, and the islamic revolution in egypt gets shunned upon by orthodox muslims. They believe in offensive wars, muhammad pbuh believed in defensive one's, and there's numerous references to self-defence in the qu'ran.

    Just because a group of people "think" they're following "real" islam, and think other muslims are "kuffars" doesn't mean they're correct. Your opinion is biased, and you can't even challenge me on the qu'ran, yet your yakking off like a mad dog. Wahhabi's are a minority, and orthodox muslims (sunna wal jama) represent the majority of muslims world wide. That's why we condemn such militant groups, such as the "muslim brotherhood" of egypt, because their dogma is wrong. The muslims from the west come from the east, and they know whats really good, your just a retarded kid that no-one likes, truth be told. You could keep coming down with your BS, i'll be here refuting it every time.
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  11. takTICz:defendSIVE

    takTICz:defendSIVE Iv falln andI cant get uP

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    Salaamhu Alaykum rahmatulla Dearest Sidi:
    Bismillah hir Rah man nir rah heem.

    Alhamdulillah I love your vigor and heart brother, but the thing is wikipedia is not a credible source for anyone to read about salafi and/or wahabi... moreover what needs to be understood is that everything in Islam as far as teachings, etc. works as a chain or a tree for example:

    The Prophet Peace and blessing be upon lived his live which is the sunnah- over years people interpreted or remembered his actions differently i.e. Imam Hanifa, Hanbali, Malik, and Shafi- all these people Alhamdulillah spent there LIVES recollecting hadiths and trying to remember and recall how the Prophet lived his life from the teeniest tiniest detail i.e. how he prayed, how he washed himself, etc.

    So the point is these are all considered to be the four Fiqha of Islam, meaning the consensus amongst the majority of scholars is that these are legit schools of thought, but then you had people who LEARNED IN A CHAIN ex. Abu Bakr Radi Allahu Anh taught hadrat Ali who then taught the starter of the Shadaley tareekah- meaning that it is legit in the sense that they learned it in chain so the teachings are perserved, but they just focus on a different aspect of the deen (dikr that's why they're suffis :) )
    And as far as wahhabis are concerned i know many and am good friends with many, they just follow the Qur'an and Sunnah WORD for WORD, LINE for LINE and they don't like when people don't do the same....

    On a completely different note. Ya akhi if you are in the midwest, Sheikh Khalid Yassin will be speaking @ Purdue University this Friday from 6-9PM i would love if you could make it out there- please let me know my sn has been posted on this board so definately stay in contact- Insha'Allah we can benefit from each other, and Insha'Allah I have not said anything to offend you or stated any thing incorectly may Allah swt forgive us all for our mistakes.

    Salaamhu Alaykum
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  12. takTICz:defendSIVE

    takTICz:defendSIVE Iv falln andI cant get uP

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    Menaz: Here's the thing, when you're trying to have a logical debate, based on reasoning, fact, and belief and when you're dealing with educated people, whether it be on the collegiate level or one that is just educated on the subject at hand you would expect
    1. that person not to use profanity
    2. that person not to say things like, "Oh, that's so wrong and evil"
    3. and combination of 1 or 2

    Because that would defy reasoning and fact and just soley be your belief which is no argument and a dead conversation.

    2nd, wahhabism as such is what wahhabis BELIEVE themselves as following the sunnah of the Prophet PBUH word for word, line for line LITERALLY.

    But, what you have to understand is there were IMAM (great scholars), the likes of which there are none alive today: Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Shafi, Imam Hanbali. And the schools of thoughts of these four Imams, is considered to be the four Fiqhs of Islam in other words the 4 schools of thought and this is the consensus of the majority of Scholars. And one thing that needs to be understood is these Imams spent their lives compiling Hadiths and would recollect and cite down to every detail one can even imagine- and the differences of these four madhabs is relatively tiny- the TAWHEED concept remains intact for all these madhab which is the belief in one God and the belief that the Prophet PBUH is the last messenger.

    So, when someone is saying they're a wahhabi- doesn't necesarily make them a bad person or evil in theory, but they are not being consistent with the four schools of thought in Islam- meaning in one way or another have have deviated- because of the fact that they do not follow the teaching of the above mentioned Imams they follow the teachings of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahab- so thebottom line is wahhabism is a reform movement of Sunni Islam- and the reason they're still considered muslim is the fact that they do believe in Tawheed, but you must understand that in a sense they have deviated from the schools of thought in Islam.

    So, the point I'm trying to make is you can not judge Islam based on wahhabis, because they are truly a POST sunni reform movement.

    Lastly, sects are sects it's illogical to judge a religion based on people who've strayed away form the original teachings to follow a teachings of someone who came after sunni Islam was already established ... the thing that is missing in all these threads is what Islam really is, not the point of how some people miscontrue, misrepresent, and misconvey Islam- The main concept of Islam is Tawheed and that's really soemthing that cannot be misconstrued.

    I hope you understand what I'm trying to say, It's kind of late over here and I'm running on a limited amount of sleep... please forgive me if anything came off offensive or rude, my strongest intentions were to simply write down facts and remain completely nuetral.. Insha'Allah we all benefit.
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  13. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    This has been argued to Ad nauseum to me. So I'm going to reply this once then not agian ( Dealing with uneducated people like you who refuse to be educated is a waste of my time.) Why can't people use Profanity? What is wrong with profanity? Are you sensative? Look at your method of debate, You're trying to tell others how to talk. I'm not your Lady you can't force me to wear a Hajib, You can't demagogue me. Learn to figure that out, the better off you'll be.


    Kind like the argument your doltishly conducting?


    Exactly. And they follow word for word as Prophet intended.



    There Pusedopigrahpics, Actually Unkown Scribes wrote them, later centuries based on the teachings of the fictional character Mohammad. There is no one God, your scriptures are a fallacy based on controling others. TAWHEED is the concept for which the violence is conducted. You're just proving my point. Prophet mohammad started out a pagan later stole his concepts from the Jews, christians, zorastorians, and nostics, after that he bagain to plead with the Jews and others to accept him as the last prophet. When they didn't he forced them to accept him by conquering them or making them into dhimmies. Those schools of Thought are corrupt. Again, I'm so tried of writting the same shit over and over. BORING!


    It means Whabbist take their religion as it was meant to be as Bin ladden knows it to be, as prophet mohammad knew it was. They follow sharia law, They don't know the difference between Humane or inhumane punishmet. All the persent day schools you talk of are under the Muslims brotherhood project, Who's goal is to progandize and take-over and rule. The Only Kind of muslims who have deviated from the path of Islam are called apostasy. They are considered Modern muslims, However, all Mondern religion leads back to Fantaicism. Just look at you, you're obsessed. There are sects of Islam ( The islamic faith is responsible for the Ideologue whether you accept that fact or not.) The sects are Off shoots that formed and went to war with each other for Caliph power after prophet Mohammad died from food posining. I leave it at that...

    And You're wrong. The Sunni's are the way they are because of the teachings of Prophet Mohammad, because of the infighting after prophet Mohammads death, and because of the Sharia law. Not to mention, the religious Dogma which ties the whole package together.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17907

    "I have written and spoken in the past of Wahhabism, the Saudi state cult, as a cancer within Islam. I have lately perceived a better parallel. Stalinism was once called “the syphilis of the labor movement.” Wahhabism, the ideology that inspires al-Qaida and Zarqawi, is the syphilis of Islam."

    Do not sit there and lie, And even attempt to make Wahhabism look partly Glories. nothing about Whhabism is Glories. it is evil. I'm actually Sorry, you aren't educated enough on this matter to understand.
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  14. menaz

    menaz Avant Garde

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    I base Islam on Koran. I base Islam on sharia law. I base Islam on its intolrant religion. I base Islam on its indoctrinated child abuse. I base islam on Hadith. You're point is from a novices perceptive. wahhabism stems from the Middle ages. it's not Post 9/11 or recent. Besides Prophet Mohammad's teachings weren't any less extreme than Whabbism. it's a throw back to prophet Mohammad's ancient Understaning of what is a true muslim.

    They haven't strayed away from anything. They are following the religion as Prophet Mohammad intended it. To say other wise, You would have to explain why the Medevil Muslims took up whabbism to take the religion back to it's roots. These Muslims in this war are not crazy, they have not fallen off the path of islam, It is seculars who have fallen off the path of islam. seculars are the APOSTASY. I don't know if you are a Secular muslims, apostasy muslims, or not, But I do know this, Whether Modern or Acient Times, the religion always ends right back how it begain -- under fanaticism. Can't the Tawheed be misconstrued? Could it be because some are too ignornat and can't think for themselves, But I suppose you can keep following it on defluat logic and blind faith.
    I think you are coming from a decent place but misguidied by your blind faith. Any approach you take doesn't matter to me. I'ma big boy, I can handle myslef. I will not remain Nuetral though. Sorry, I am on a revolution. If you read more to open your mind, you wouldn't be so attached to your Limitless idea's you do have of Islam. Pick up a Dawkins book next time you are in a library. Open your mind. I've studied your quran, I pratice arabic, and own about 100 different hadithas... So You can do me a favor and study dawkins. The quran can be a utlized as a Literary study, but not as a belief system, way of morals, or guide through life. you are not educated on Islam. Someone has miseducated you on islam. You are also not educated on Life. Let it go at that.... The Argument is Ad nauseum to me. I have other subjects I would like to discuss at the moment far more important than this tried played out argument.
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  15. takTICz:defendSIVE

    takTICz:defendSIVE Iv falln andI cant get uP

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    I'll only say two thing for now and when i have a minute i will come back and do my best to clear up the rest of your arguments...

    First thing first, I am not telling you how to talk or to "wear a hijab" take it easy, relax. I said don't swear when one is trying to have an educated debate- because it's inconsiderate to others i dont want to hear/read it- plus it just makes you look bad.

    Secondly, i did not try to glorify wahhabism at ALL, quite the contrary- I chose my words carefully not to offend anyone including wahhabi's so it may have seemed like i was saying their 'sect of Islam' is OK, but read more carefully because it sounds like you just 'SKIMMED' what i wrote....


    i will come back God willing and refute the rest of the points you made.
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