Discussion in 'Audio Help & Tips' started by frenchgign80, Nov 4, 2003.
go for it...
i said my peice...
(Bullshit post, skip to next for business)
Hahaha... ooh man this made my day, hold on I need a drink after all this shit... haha
Ok I'm good now
I really "care"
Everything I said can be found in the MPC manual, website, user forums or other various places, that Ghet didn't bother with or he would of known everything I had to re-state due to him having it wrong
I "care" once again about your personal relationships
I didn't call him a dickryder you did
and Syntax no offense you are right, but go away
Ok lets get this over with
Still not answering the question.. Ill answer it for you
Pro Tools is for production and post-production editing and none is in its league when it comes to the power of DSP
What is a MPC for? MPC is for Pre-production and production work
Why you are comparing devices geared towards different directions is beyond me, but go on head.....and why are you rambling on about products you haven't even used more less own? Stop that
Granted their are exceptions to the rule that Pro Tools is not anywhere near the topic for its weak midi sequencing
People still do use it, question is since none of these sequencers you named come with midi samplers/synths/instruments, where do they come in? Plug ins... Considering the good plugs are roughly anywhere to 200 to thousands of dollars you sure have a point with telling these noobs
"Don't buy a mpc, BUY A FULLY SOUPED UP LOGIC /w Hardware"
(We'll get into this in the next post)
****Obviously your sources of information isn't from the actual equipment, or even users of the equipment, where are you getting all this b/s from?******
MPC has automation data... means I can change the patch... also has the feature of saving the automation data...
Obviously you mean CC data that can be edited via Graphical or Text sequencer on the MPC, which is pretty easy.... even has all the numbers labeled 1 all the way to 127, same amount of CC numbers of any midi program worth a shit
Pro tools 6.1 had a sequencer that didn't bounce down tracks into a final mix for months
Logic had midi latency bug that made it unusable midi wise for months
What are you getting at? a sequencer that you can't even bounce down all your hardwork is pretty bad.... Digidesign at their best....
Or did you mean 512MB? Fucking •••tard... get your measurements right... no wonder you hate computers.. you can't understand them.
Thx for noticing my error I'll just correct that and ignore the childish antics cause you have been wrong only in just about everything you've posted in this thread concerning the MPC
Quite contair, I only use a computer every day, and am a recording engineer at a local studio, also do all my own upgrades, and repairs, but I sure do hate something that pays my bills......
Now to kick you some more knowledge you are lacking
Actually considering the better "host" based sequencers that you are mentioning take 516mb of ram to properly function, and 1 gig to be able to run with the low latency ***** comparitive ***** to the mpc, that leaves you at one gig and a half of computer ram dedicated just for samples
Now before you say some more moronic stuff, the sequencer on the MPC uses 1%-5% ram fully loaded(why? cause its written to the bios(http://computer.howstuffworks.com/bios.htm),not a Hard drive..., it doesn't have a pretty graphical interface sucking up ram, the mpc will NEVER skip a beat(perfect live), the plugs are dsp therefor requiring no ram, and hardware users resample for simple things like v.g.a.s(varable gain amplifers(compression group noob jeez)), eq, and even reverb and delay, giving unlimited amount of useage of plugs,
and resampling on hardware is standard options that make it extremely easy unlike having to go thru the routing process for software
You seem a little unsure.... perhaps its cause you are guessing
When you start to get to 1 gig your rate of return starts to drop off significantly for One program, so you will have to start loading up alot of shit to raise that rate of return back up
Considering the MPC only runs one and only one program and 99-95% of the ram is all samples, with the all the DSP running thru an internal board, the MPC isn't really wishing to do anything..
Huge sampler librarys can be converted to work just fine on my mpc
(translator program once again
(ghet: idiot they are 9 gigs)
Ya USB harddrives are nice... (translator program once again
If for some reason you don't want to use the good plugs/effects built in, I can usb a sound out to my favorite software program and resample right back in
Signal generators....wtf...you mean more ram hogging shit?
You do realize a Midi sequencer doesn't need signal generators except in the sampling department, which is much nicer and easy then any of the sample editing programs including Recycle...
Man your informant should be shot cause hes a full blown liar, considering you don't even know what a synth is composed of (or you wouldnt of said nothing that dumb)
I don't need the lecture
Can be applied to a group of sounds(program) or single sounds without hitting play more less record CHECK[X]
Can use Ak.Sys on your computer, and speed thru setup of these and other functions CHECK[X]
Mpc is a Over-Glorified Sampler plus Synth SIR!
Live performance mixing/remixing/playing is extremely common even in the hiphop world, and even more when you step outside of it, try getting out the house and going to a show, not to mention editing the beat live on stage is alot of fun, and you can respond to the crowd, but then again You are basement ridden so....
I'm sure you caught a few glimpses at the people who had their equipment on stage, instead of in the back on the Source Awards
[End of Response to Thread One]
This is about the dumbest shit you've said in this whole thread honestly
I don't know whether to slap you or laugh at you
It inputs anything that outputs sound, just like a speaker, who misinformed you of this, cause thats so ass wrong its pathetic
Theres no format when sound comes out of your computer silly ass, or you would need a set of speakers/monitors for every sound format there is
If your infering the mpc doesn't have a sound "card", where does the sound come from then...the same place as your information...
Notice I say Reason 1 to Reason 2 which gave alot of significant changes, then you say Reason to 2.5 which changes don't even amount to half a page
Reason 2.0 to Reason 2.5 is as about significant as OS 1.30 to 1.45
What do you think you do every time you buy a new soundcard? a new processor? new ram? new case? The same shit I'm doing
Granted you can take yours piece by piece, and I do mine all at once, when you add it up its all the same thing.....
I also have to resell my old MP which will have a decent value that will cut down the cost on the new one
how bout Ghet posts a beat he made on software, and Demandred posts a beat made on an MPC
granted if theyre both ill kids will know to go to software because it doesnt cost as much, but if people like Demands and not Ghets then software is not the way for them to go
IIIII prefer software as, well, yea, i pay less and get more (more space, more useablitity IMHO)
Sometimes I think your in another thread, not only are you missing velocity and aftertouch, 16 pads plus the 6 buttons right on top of it (sad you don't even know shit about "the pads" as you put it but you bash them so readily) which gives 96 freely assignable pads each with their own midi number/note (readily avaible in the .5 sec it takes to hit the button) (snidely) with my precious footpedals that can be customized to any midi request in addition to sustain
Can't play the piano? great, just assign all the D minor keys to the pads and you'll never have to learn.....(Your midi controller can't do this fyi)
Anyway since you can't even follow simple rules, lemme find the cheapest keyboard that meets these requirements
StudioLogic TMK-88 MIDI Controller
$300 would be great, but no aftertouch so next...
Studiologic SL-2001 $900
Matches the features with the MPC that you complain about precisely
Studiologic SL-880 PRO 88-Key Hammer-Action Controller $600 misses it by just 1 pedal input and midi knobs sorry we are talking precision right?
Since we are at 1500 already I'll let the SCSI and the MMC go although it would be nice to have a start/stop switch on the controller (its not the point you need it, the "shitty" MPC has it default)
Now We seemed to have forgot.... the computer.. damn how can we forget that, considering the mpc can be transporting like a laptop that wouldn't be fare,
(Ghet: I already have a computer)
What about a kid starting from nothing? Outdated Computer?
It takes a computer to run all this shit your talking about right?
Only fair we factor it in...
If your running Pro Tools, Logic, DP(all these programs you don't have and rambling about) you should have a dedicated machine what about the guy that has a old old ass computer, his machine certainly isnt comparble cause it's going to have a hell of a time with even running itself more less all these fancy plugins your talking about
So let's take the cheap route and build our own computer and not pay someone else even more money(person who knows nothing bout computer will pay more) (please don't say some dumb shit like Dell, have you visited the forums with ppl complaining about the audio conflicts with the cheap parts in a Dell? We don't want cheap parts in a Audio Computer!)
(All Prices quoted from newegg.com less otherwise stated)
Let's see 2.0-2.4 gig would be decent /w the test Intels are better, but since your a cheap ass We'll go AMD
Lets go AMD 3000 overclock it to 3200 for $209.00
Asus Motherboard A7N8X Deluxe Retail
Nicest Motherboard $117.00
Ok now the equalivant ram Gig and Half
1GB DDR400, PC3200 = $329.00 per stick (987.00 for 3 gig of no namer ram)
512MB DDR400, PC3200 = $99.00 per stick (no namer ram)
(Leaving room for all that flexibilty and dreams of 3 gigs of ram)
(2 gig in my computer btw
No namer Ram
Ok we need an audio dedicated harddrive, we want an optimized computer 2 HDs (SEAGATE SCSI 37GB 10,000RPM $150.00 SEAGATE SCSI 18.4GB 15,000RPM, $190.00, those sure are expensive compared to their 7200 rpm counterparts...)
Seagate Barracuda 80GB 7200RPM 73.00 x 2 (can't have windows running on the same drive as Pro Tools now can we...) $146.00
We want a semi decent case with some fans, cause we do alot of audio work and we dont need the computer to overheat $75.00, add 2 more fans and install those another $40.00
Shitty video card long as it runs all those ram hogging Signal Generators
I dunno $40.00 dollars
Midi interface we forgot about that compares to MPC's
Emagic UT4 $150.00 with patchbay option
Monitor (i got my own personal screen on MPC) $235.00 just for the hell of it ORION 15" LCD monitor Model 15 TL Beige - Retail (bulky monitors are out and weigh more than the MPC)
$1165.00 /wo Monitor $1400.00/w Monitor
$2500.00 if you are talking mac(Logic, DP) and another $700.00 for the monitor $3200.00 just for the middle class G5
Lets add that 1500 from all the external gear
$2900.00 /w Windows Setup
$4700.00 /w Mac Setup
We still don't have any software/plugins/samples
(since we are playing the legit game according to you, and we arent bothering with waiting on cracks)
We can cop Fruity for $120.00 Reason $350.00
But thats another agrument, they are no more powerful than a MPC so lets proceed
Cubase SX2 $559.00 Great program, and you would of been able to base a beautiful argument in comparsion between the two, which would of challenged me since I have alot of experience with this program and Nuendo 2 $1299.99 and love them both
But no we want to talk about the power of something we don't use so lets transcend to that
Pro Tools LE is a weak version of TDM 32 tracks only, RTAS plug ins best are on mac, but we have the weaken Windows version with several faults that still are not up to par with Mac version, but thats another subject, VST not directly useable in PT yet...(waiting on wrapper)
Digi 002r 1,200.00 (soundcard plus Pro Tools)
Digi 002m 2,200.00(I own this in my home setup, love it)
Logic($700.00) and DP($330.00) are mac only, so you are going to have to add in that cost if you want the latest and the greatest, and Logic is no more "powerful" till you start adding on the hardware you are speaking of, which it starts out at $5319 just for the program,computer,monitor, and the sampler/synth plugs
But to have a Logic system thats way beyond the MPC we are going to have to add on the Pro Tools TDM Hardware 750.00 interface then buy the hardware
Let's see this powerful hardware, your refering to
hd 1 $8000 per 32 channels
hd 2 $11000 per 32 channels
hd 3 $14000 per 32 channels
192 I/O $3995.00
96i I/O $2195.00
MIDI I/O $595.00
SYNC I/O $2095.00
The plug ins only range from 500-4,500 dollars a piece, some you can download, alot of the good ones (mac only) you can't, not to mention with ilok comming out this will slow down warez plug ins with time, as they make it so you will need ilok to even run the program/plugs
$11,400.00 without the HD card, furniture, or tax
$25,400.00, shit since you spent all this money might as well get a control surface
$37,400.00 without furniture or tax and all you have is 32 channels of audio for Pro Tools TDM that shits on the MPC(not midi wise) with its still weak midi sequencing thats slowly comming into comparison with Cubase or Logic
Lets add all that to a powerhouse logic that shits on the MPC $43,469.00 /w TDM interface
And that doesn't even include one plugin.....
The idiocy is you comparing a preproduction/(instrumental) production geared product to a (audio recording)production/post production geared product, and the MPC doesn't fall short in its price range till you start adding on the big bucks
Your playing both sides of the field on one side you say mpc is too expensive, then on the other side you want to list things way beyond its price range and then say they are better
Jesus you don't quit do you.... I dunno, maybe a default edit called Pitch Shift... Ya it also pitch shift with 55 presets depending on type of sample it is(vocal/drum/etc)
I can also time stretch my life away
You've haven't even broken the soil yet....
your MPC can do.... everything I said it couldn't -Ghet Ghet
Go away, thats something a noob would say
This argument isnt about what makes better beats, cause you can make the same exact beat in hardware as you can software, and its not the tools it's the user that determines the outcome
Comparing Software vs Hardware in 2 beats is beyond idiotic, especially since I use them both together and regularly
This argument is about Ghet saying the MPC inferior, and him spewing all his uncorrect knowledge about an MPC, he obviously has never sat in front of. trying to say the MPC is a waste of investment, and couldnt even prove it in 3 post exchanges
I wish all these C people would C their way out unless they have something worthwhile to add to this discussion
both are for beat production, if both can make the same beats, it just depends on the user, and the MPC costs more, then how is it NOT inferior?
to production, i am a noob, and yea that was a stupid idea, but hey, yall arent gonna come to any conclusion this way
This is such a contridiction
One extreme you say it's inferior cause it cost more, but then you say to production you are a noob?
How would you even be able to judge if you don't know how to produce more less the process behind it?
It's like saying a PC is better than a Mac yet you've never even used a Mac in your life
and comparing it to your contridiction it would be like you having no computer experience, and your going purely on cost.....
Refer to post 66 for your answer
This is a free thread. where people talk all day, The conclusion determined will be defined by Me and Ghet's terms, not anyone elses, You don't have to click this thread and read it word from word, We can go on till we are old and gray or untill the other gives up, or until this thread gets locked(no reason for it to be locked perfectly good conversation breaking no rules)
yea but you said that both can produce the exact same beats
the MPC is a computer (with less capabilities than a standard CPU as far as harddrive space and RAM goes)
and a regular computer is more upgradeable, and the software will cost less than that MPC
if some said "a mac and a pc are the same exact thing, except the mac has less ram and harddrive space and costs more, but is great for production but thats ALL it will do"
ill take the PC anyday
but yes, this is all you and Ghet cuz i agree you all are far more knowledgeable in this
i agree with Ghet, obviously
but demandred does have a good stance because he used an MPC AND software, ghet, you jus seem to hate the MPC and refuse to use it after like a test run through it
"My site exists to help people. "
Hitler wanted to help people as well. Didn't mean he was right, either.
Ghet, you're obviously a speed and memory freak. Get into the charts? What charts? The Billboard charts? Or did you mean www.mp3.com? Redman - Dare Iz A Darkside (if you hate, you're a hiphop heretic) was made on an MPC60, plus s950.
All in all, Ghet, the fact remains simple. You like knowing that your machine runs Superman-style, rather than music-making quality. Two thousand MPCs will whoop over Pro-Tools, because alone, Pro-Tools has nothing.
With a midi controller and VST programs, THEN you're getting somewhere.
Stop being an arrogant prick.
Still playing word games and cutting the answer off midsentance because you have nothing to go off of. I'll finish it for you. Let me guess, you are a Democrat and you hate Bush?
Why buy a modular unit that cannot be upgraded with hte flexibility of a computer when there are software DAWs out there that do everything and more then these little worthless machines?
What weak MIDI sequencing are we talking about here? Is this an assumed myth that you take to? The only thing weak about it's functions is that it doesn't have a logical editor for it's MIDI layouts like Cubase, DP, or Logic has. Aside from that, ProTools MIDI, when the patch change is written and initialized per track, runs extremely solid, including the LE (001 and 002 rack/console) version. So what weak MIDI sequencing are we talking about? The 960 PPQN? What are you refering to? Nothing? Assuming? Just the lack of a logical editor? Is it's polyphony too high for you? What?
Plug-ins are downloadable, period. People on this board are not making music to pay bills like me or you. They are doing it to past time and impress friends and maybe even sell a few on the side. If they want to go professional, they can always buy the plug-ins and be legit about it. And Logic comes with it's own set of instruments as does Cubase SX, so stop your filthy despreate lies.
What's the automation's resolution because every DAW in existance is sample accurate.
And Cubase SX for OS X has a bug in it that won't let you drag MIDI notes. So what is the solution? Download the patch.
And what's the solution for your MPC? 1.) You NEED a computer with an internet connection to download the patch or 2.) You NEED a friend who has access to a computer on the internet to download the patch and install it on a floppy disk or 3.) You mail out to the company for the patch upgrade.
Sounds like alot of work for a simple firmware update.
Says the child who cannot give a single reason why an MPC is better to the infinite expandability and flexibility of a computer system... and has to spin the connotation on having 3GB of RAM is apparently "a bad thing". Desperation never is an ally, no matter the situtation.
Holy assumptions, batman.
I am running 512MB right now, with 4 a1 synth VSTis, a 16 instrument orchestra synth, Battery N1 with two rows of drums, 2 Bass-Station VSTis, an L1 Maximizer plug, a Tube Amplifier plug, a Reverb, a Tap Delay, and about 16 MIDI tracks in Cubase SX... guess what my latency is? Go on, give me a number since you seem to think latency is such an issue. You give me a number and I'll give you the exact number.
It has a monochrome 120x100 (maybe bigger) resolution screen... no kidding it doesn't take alot of ram to run that. It didn't take alot of RAM back in 1960, either.
With external DSP chips on a good soundcard, (Go, Aardvark!) you will not encounter RAM issues either.
The project settings controls the overall sample rate and has nothing to do with the routing process. Then again, if you are only dealing with short loops and one-hits, the wait time for resampling on either platform is insignificant. But, then again, with VST/RTAS/TDMis, resampling is not an issue at all.
With a frontside bus of 800mhz and higher, fuck your theory out the window.
Go, routing nightmare!
With a DAW; a couple auxes, and a few busses, you got yourself whatever you want.
No, I mean actual synth instruments that your MPC is incapable of ever touching. Physical modeling of acoustics = MPC will never approach or ever expand to. The only thing getting near physical modeling of acoustics are dedicated keyboards, and even then, they will falter once the architecture of mutli-threading processors becomes industry standard for DAW applications. Computers conitnue to upgrade daily while all of your pretty little equipment will have to keep adding 2000 to their model number just to keep up.
You are going to have to show me a screen shot of that, because when I look at.. lets say the Edirol Orchestra... and then I think of... oh... 16-pad MPC over there and it's neat little vari-wave generator... I think it's obvious who is going to dump out the more usable and layerable sounds.
Leave that to the MIDI roadie techs. I have no aspirations of ever being a Monitor or FoH engineer. Those people are in world all their own. This debate resolves to ease of production only.
*sigh* Your predictable headers are getting weaker and weaker. Can we seriously try something a bit more creative? I know your desperate to try and prove to the world that your MPC was really a good investment, but opening up every line with the same predictable nonsene isn't taking you any closer towards that goal.
So I guess S/PDIF, AES/EBU, analog, and TOSlink are all the same? No, there is no format when sound comes out of a module/soundcard! Just plug all of them into a speaker an it will work!
Upgrading hardware is upgrading hardware. Upgrading one build of a program to a completely new build is a world easier (and cheaper) then re-purchasing hardware. For example, ProTools 5.whatever to ProTools 6.0.. two totally different interfaces, program functionalities, and in general, two different programs... utilizing the same hardware, requiring no additional hardware updates.
ghet, you want to have a beat battle?
your best, against a very old beat from POTR?
other than that, you're blowing hot air.
also, OWNING a computer is different from producing on it. keep that in mind, extremist.
Aardvark owns. Only downfall is when you play certain games, you have to disable it because it isn't compatible with it. Aside from that, Aardvark owns.
Uhh... the Radium is velocity sensative on it's keys. And even if it wasn't, YOU CAN ALTER THE VELOCITY DATA ANYWAYS! With Logic or DP, you can do all kindsa wonderful shit to the velocity to make it sound "natural"
And yes, the Radium has assignable aftertouch features as well.
Please, that is weaker then weak. VSTi's allow you to assign whatever you want to whatever key you want. The Battery N1 is the perfect example of that. As for chromatic VSTis like A1 or the Orchestra, it is great to have a 4 octave range (that's 48 notes in a natural linear layout) avaible for chords instead of 16 pads in a square matrix format, giving you access to exactly 1 and a 3rd full octave. (that's 16 notes in a non-linear layout) Not everything in hip-hop is drums and samples, you know.
Can't play the piano? Great. Just hold your mouse over a grid spot in the DAW and it will TELL YOU WHAT NOTE IT IS!
I did follow your rules. Radium49 has Aftertouch and Velocity sensative keys as well as 8 assignable knobs. As from the Radium49 Manual:
The Data Entry Slider
You may select the transmitting value of various MIDI functions (such as velocity offset, aftertouch, reverb depth, pan pot, volume, CC data) by pressing the MIDI/SELECT button followed by the key labeled with that MIDI function, then moving the DATA ENTRY slider to select the desired value.
This means the AFterTouch can be assigned to whatever value you wish.
Thus, your locked scenario of expensive alternatives can be eagerly dismissed. We are still at $798.00 and well within your requirements for what your MPC is capable of, including totally dismissing other things it does because... well... DAWs and computer do not even need to do it. (MMC for example)
It is also fair that a computer is standard if you require jumping online and doing this sort of thing anyways, so many prices you are adding can be dismissed since they already exist in this situation. (Monitor, keyboard, mouse, and in many cases, harddrive's are already decent enough.) For the most part, the major upgrades people will make are RAM and processor, and in some instances, motherboard. (Soundcard is already covered: Aardvark)
SCSI is not nessecary on the production end. If they were live recording, then yes, it would be nessecary, however, in this case it is not. Thus, add another SeaGate Barracuda for the two harddrives. [one audio, one apps] Even though the person already has a harddrive, I'll be fair and let you purchase two brandspanking new ones.
Case isn't nessecary since THEY ALREADY HAVE A COMPUTER and all we are doing is upgrading it.
Coolant isn't nessecary as the processor comes with it's own $10 heatsink.
Video Card isn't nesscary since THEY ALREADY HAVE A COMPUTER RUNNING ON THE INTERNET.
Midi Interface isn't nessecary since WE ALREADY ARE USING THE AARDVARK.
Monitor isn't nessecary since THEY ALREADY HAVE A COMPUTER RUNNING ON THE INTERNET.
CuBase - downloadable
DP - downloadable
Logic - downloadable
Crack for Logic - downloadable
Plug-ins - downloadable
Samples - downloadable
(Ask Ray for his FTP)
This brings us to a grand total of computer parts (motherboard, ram, processor, two harddrives, cd burner, processor fan) at $882. Our audio parts (Aardvark and the keyboard) come to a grand total of $798. Combined, before taxes and shipping, it is $1,680 TOTAL.
And the MPC4000 is still $3,000 retail... and is still just a sampler without any serious chromatic sound generation abilities whatsoever and forever locked into it's set state of plugins and effects... while the system above can be expanded into plug-ins galore.
The MPC has failed in flexibility and is now charging more for that failure.
Hey Milo, what's the most you ever sold a beat for?
I think this has gone too far now lol...... I really dont think its so much the 'tools', but the skill of the person using the tools... Ive heard some very dope beats made from very limited means.....
Although, I personally very much enjoy using my MPC and get good results from it, I wouldnt say to anybody that mpc = phat beats, cos if the producer has no talent, then beats will be wack (just like I wouldnt recommend getting a top end condenser mic for an MC who is clearly lacking in the abilities to record a half decent track)....... all I say is try out different things & choose what your most comfortable using (or what fits your budget etc).
For somebody to say 'mpcs are pieces of junk' and give the impression that they are useless for production is clearly extremely ignorant....... also it would be equally ignorant to say 'software is junk for production', because 99% of this board wuold have heard tracks they like that have been produced by both hardware & software exclusively..... I use both hardware & software (as obviously MPC is preproduction and tracks need to be 'dumped' elsewhere for a proper mixdown with compression etc), so I would never argue against the use of software, but on the other hand I find it totally illogical for somebody like Ghet to tell me that what Im using (mpc) to produce is a piece of junk when Im using it to produce beats and its doing the job for me...... surely thats all that counts????
MPCs are pieces of junk. Don't give me these fence riding requests because you can't handle the facts. I've broken down the prices, I've broken down the specs, I've broken down thousands of times in several different languages with every known dialect of each language on how the computer as a means of centralized production annihilates outsources, over-rated, and expensive gear.
What is so hard to understand about it? Seriously? Can you not accept it? Does your ego not allow it? I have shown you with cold, unrefutable facts of price, technology, and measurable flexibility on why the computer is a superior choice for people just starting out. You people simply will not accept it.
Separate names with a comma.