Discussion in 'The Sanctuary' started by TheBigPayback, Jan 26, 2012.
this is beyond face palm, it deserves a backahnd
The earth is just a faint copy of heaven.
Yes. As shown by science that is testable, observable and demonstrable. And as told by your ancestors in the Holy Texts.
can't wait to read the bible in chinese
hahaha word, I hear that.
I can't wait until the clock strikes midnight...it's got to be close man.
they've been saying that for about 2000 years now.
and imagine if the chinese had written it
their language is so complex it hardly ever translates properly to english
for example ill just use my kung fu, We have a form its called the siu nim tao. In chinese it means epiphany, but when translated to english it means little idea. Easy to misinterprate a language that has a meaning so much deeper than its literal translation...
we also have a saying "fist comes from the heart" - most english people take this as literal because in our martial art we do literally punch from the center of our chest... but it means so much more than that and is actually saying " when you do anything, do it with all your heart" basically dont half ass anything...
Probably...I assume by 'they' you mean man. Don't let bad predictions spoil the True Word. That nobody can possibly figure out the one and only true return of King Christ (lol sounds like king Kong a little).
We are provided with what to expect in the final days. So we know there will be a end time. This is where hype is built and generated into madness. imo. It's anybodies guess biased on how well they know scripture and how well they know real current events inside and out...which hardly any of us lowly debt slaves can possibly acquire first hand. And even if we know what's in the kingdom of earth fully, still we cannot calculate the hour.
It's futile. It will happen though (no rapture, just a return and a setting of things straight).
I trust the scripture. We win at the end. Are you on the winning team ?
German is the same way really. But probably easier than Chinese. Hey, I thought the language they speak is called something else besides Chinese ? There are like a dozen (?) or so distinct and popular dialects of it, right.
haha yeah theres no such language as chinese... mandarin and cantonese are the most popular... its just easier to say chinese cuz some people would have no idea what i was talkin about if i got down to the dirty dirty lol
i see. perhaps you'd like to give your insight on a few pieces of scripture?
The truth about the Bible is that even the OT prophets foretold of end times. TBH, you really have to take the Bible, all the chunks, blocks and incorporate it holistically to understand what it's teaching you. It's a Living book and it has to be taken in as a book. This is not however to imply that the Bible is a cryptic book beyond layman understandings. It is also not evidence against it's Truth. It's just how it is, to be frank. I think a problem with some people perhaps is that they take single verses and apply it as a blanket statment...this is error. And just like knowing signs of the day (end times for example) you have to go book by book and learn the message. It was given us to read in, grow in and even look ahead in as a foundation to understand the context of all things. Prove all things with scripture. Prove scripture with scripture, if done yourself you will agree. I also pray you read again fresh, the New Testament cover to cover. It will facilitate future discussions. Just how I know the bells and whistles of the Humanist Religion...
I also note you are inferring about certain passages/verses commonly used in evolutionist/atheistic arguments. This if fine, not a problem. I will give you my insights. Apparently from that verse we will know the sign as we see the lights in the firmament collapse and dim out. Yet, another sign provided.
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you,
That there be some of them that stand here,
which shall not taste of death, till they have seen
the kingdom of God come with power.
Kingdom literally means God's Rule. So let's establish the context here. It's fair and only logical. He was talking to his disciples, teaching them rather. Taking up their cross: giving up the flesh for the Truth of the Gospel. To give themselves up for the Truth, the one Truth. Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy Angels. -Mark 8:38 (also alluding toward his Return and the Judgment that we ALL will face.)
So, I see it as prophecy that the Church (believers in Christ, not a building) will be established on the Rock of Christ, his foundation after his resurrection on the first Pentecost. It was on Pentecost that The Holy Ghost (the comforter. It's called by a few different names actually) came, thus God's power, and that the kingdom - God's Rule, the Church, would be established. The 'some' that stood there, helped establish the Kingdom before defeating the enemy of personal bodily death. The Kingdom came on that day. See Acts 1:8 and Acts 2:1-4.
See matthew 28 below for a differnt angle
The Kingdom of God is in even YOU now today. Thank the Lord. Also, I've know of other interpretations, some falsely so called. You got to take in the entire book.
But in those days, after that tribulation, the
sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not
give her light, And the stars of heaven shall
fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be
shaken. And then shall they see the Son of
man coming in the clouds with great power and
glory. And then shall he send his angels,
and shall gather together his elect from the four
winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the
uttermost part of heaven. Now learn a
parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet
tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that
summer is near: So ye in like manner, when
ye shall see these things come to pass, know
that it is nigh, even at the doors. Verily I say
unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till
all these things be done. Heaven and earth
shall pass away: but my words shall not pass
This is a controversial verse. It is used to support, In MY STRONG opinion, false teachings. Teachings like a pre-trib rapture...
The tribulation is actually the great trials believers will be made to go through as the secular world continues to heat up it's attack on Truth and the believers in it - The true disciples that really follow Christ. Not the Monday night football Christians. No way out of it. Slowly, the Saints will be squeezed out of society and I even think the future of the Church is in the woods. It's already happening and has been happening. Take all this in with other books in the Bible, and you will know, you will not be deceived into traps and snares of Antichrists (false doctrines and teachings). One thing is certain, the attack on Truth is Legion and thousand fold. There are things that Saints cannot stand for and many things are being framed around us that will eventually intensify the tribulation to come and seek to trap even the elect, if it were possible. The elect are the true saints, putting complete trust in Christ. How do you know if you are one ? Your faith is so complete that you cannot be decived by antichrist teachings. We will be persecuted and killed. It's heating up now, if you pay attention to what's around you. If you stand hard in Christ you cannot even be deceived, though you might face bodily death, but how can you fear that knowing Truth ? I don't
It also describes the manner in which he will return, with the Holy Angels. The gathering of the 'elect' will be when he pulls the weeds from the wheat. The believer from the scoffer. The Judgment
For the Son of man shall come in the glory
of his Father with his angels; and then he shall
reward every man according to his works.
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing
here, which shall not taste of death, till they see
the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Verse 27: There are a lot of theories and interpretations of this. Works is not meaning doing stuff, good deeds, as like just to buy a ticket to heaven. It implies deeper meanings related to the entire Gospel message. Some think one will reap in the Kingdom of Heaven 1000 fold, 80 fold, 20 fold etc biased on works, thus said Jesus about it in truth. God will Judge you, and knowing this he will Judge you biased on something, ie yourself. What you did, your sanctification, how you handled the truth once acquired etc...this is hard for me to explain in words.
God has given you a gift of salvation through Christ, what will verify you belong in his presence ? He gave you the opportunity of salvation. How big is God...I fear him. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. Heaven is only filled with and in sanctified Holiness, there is no sin in heaven. ONly in the fallen earth. Be justified Reggie. Be Holy. What will justify you before the Most High ? Christ.
28: Just like Mark 9:1 but another interpretation is common. That it's a vision of Jesus standing before Moses and Elijah in the Future Glory of the Kingdom of Heaven. There are parallel passages in other Gospels too.
Like the above parallel passage. But there are five schools of thoughts and five main interpretations of the entire book of Revelations, which also support this verse in Mattew. This would be a different discussion though.
^If you deny the truth and the Gospel you deny Christ, and he will deny you, in short. But I could go on.
we can get more detailed, just ask and we can discuss. Also, keep in mind there is NOT ONE EVIDENCE for evolution. Just reminding you friend...
The only books that are in any sort of chronology are the books of moses. The rest new testiment mostly are mostly letters to churches. Which mirrorthe churches of ourcentury up until the end. Currently we are the leodecian church.
word up on the obvious chronology tip of the 5 books of moses. But in truth, all the books have an order. They are in sequence of date of authorship and make sense in the order they are placed...each chapter builds. The book is living.
word up Payback. am I right ?
EDIT: as seen in the OLD T. mostly
True about the Epistles, I agree
Yes but generally they are not associated works or even same time periods. They do compliment each other as everything is congirmed by two or three witnesses an that God doesnt change so the inspiration given is the same. But literarily they are seperate letters with the same inspiration.
Word. Good stuff man
i appreciate the answers. so if i am understanding you correctly, you're saying that rather than the rapture christ was saying 'the church' will be established before the passing of that generation?
i could see how this works for a few of the quotes, like the kingdom of god one. but what about mark 13:24, the 'controversial verse' as you put it? it seems to specifically describe the rapture followed by the assurance that 'this generation will not pass till all these things be done.' i didn't really see anything in your response that addressed this directly.
imagine you were alive in the times of christ or the time immediately after his death, and you were to hear these promises. would you not be convinced that the rapture would come in your own lifetime?
Its talking about the end times generation. Which i believe is us. Will see all the things mentioned in revelations. And its specifically talking about the people that live during the final seven years.
But personally me and coup disagree regaurding the rapture.
The tribulation is actually the great trials believers will be made to go through as the secular world continues to heat up it's attack on Truth and the believers in it -The true disciples that really follow Christ
This isnt the case.
The first 31/2 years is the wrath of satan, which believers certainly will be present for.
The second 31/2 years is the wrath of God, on the unbelievers, those that chose Satan. Those that accepted the mark etc.
the Saints are not appointed to wrath.
i dunno man. if you go back to 13:1 and read the chapter from the beginning, it seems like he is speaking directly to his disciples, and thus referring to them when he says 'this generation will not pass.'
keep in mind, the prediction/promise at 13:30 is a theme which is repeated through several of the passages i quoted before. mark 9:1 states specifically that 'there shall be some of them that stand here, who shall not taste of death, until they have seen the kingdom of god come with power.' you could take coup's interpretation that he was referring to the establishment of the church. but then matthew 16:28 uses almost identical wording:
16:27 makes it hard to argue that he was referring to the church here. it sounds more like a reference to the rapture.
matthew 24:34 uses similar language, though without specifying 'those that stand here' and instead referring once again to 'this generation.'
the surrounding verses make it quite clear that this is the same sermon that was featured at mark 13:24 and all 4 of these passages feature very similar language, beginning with the phrase 'verily i say unto you' and following with a promise that they would not die before these things he was speaking of came to pass. the only real variation between these passages is that mark 9:1 and matthew 16:28 refer to 'those that stand here' while mark 13:30 and matthew 24:34 use the phrase 'this generation.' given the other similarities among the passages, it appears to me that all 4 are essentially making the same prediction/promise: that the rapture would come within the first century CE, or more specifically within the lifetimes of the people who were listening to his sermon.
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