Mixed feelings about Barry Bonds...

Discussion in 'Sports Central' started by Porno_Lady, Jul 12, 2007.

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  1. Offbeat

    Offbeat New Member

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    ryan has about 1,000 more strikeouts then clemens.
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  2. Old Soul

    Old Soul Nipple Nibbler

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    He played forever and racked-up a ton of those K's in a 4-man rotation.

    Where's his CY's? Clemens would need to play another 10 years just to match Ryan's awful walk numbers.
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  3. Nam Dekan

    Nam Dekan i got a tip in my pocket

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    pete rose has 1,000 more hits then Mays but that doesn't make him a better player


    Ryan also has 1,000 more walks then the next person on the list..He also ranks 508th all time on the career win/loss %
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  4. Offbeat

    Offbeat New Member

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    ryan still has the strikeouts man. good enough for me. 1,000 more then the next guy in line? please man, that's bonkers and you know it.
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  5. Nam Dekan

    Nam Dekan i got a tip in my pocket

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    Ok so not exactly a 1000 but 962

    Top 5 in walks

    1. Nolan Ryan+ 2795 R
    2. Steve Carlton+* 1833 L
    3. Phil Niekro+ 1809 R
    4. Early Wynn+ 1775 R
    5. Bob Feller+ 1764 R


    I'd take Randy Johnson for a power pitcher over Nolan Ryan anyday
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  6. Hash Seeds

    Hash Seeds New Member

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    I don't see how anyone can say that steroids hasn't helped Barry Bonds. When you compare his stats from his first 6 or 7 season, it's obvious to see the difference. He didn't even hit over 40 hrs in his first 7 seasons. His numbers weren't even eyepopping. At take a look at his slugging which skyrocketed between 2001 and 2004, coincidentally around the same time the BALCO issue was at hand. How could honestly think a man who wasn't even belting over 35 hrs in his first 7 seasons in the league would even break Babe Ruths record is beyond me. And all this talk about who Babe Ruth played compared to who Barry Bonds played is nonsense. Babe broke those records on natural talent and sure power and was a drunkard and out of shape. People don't know this, but the Babe also pitched and was good at it. I can just imagine how good Aaron or Babe would have been if they could have been juiced up, they could have added some more years on there career.




    Year Team R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB AVG OBP SLG OPS
    1986 PIT 72 92 26 3 16 48 65 102 36 .223 .330 .416 .746
    1987 PIT 99 144 34 9 25 59 54 88 32 .261 .329 .492 .821
    1988 PIT 97 152 30 5 24 58 72 82 17 .283 .368 .491 .859
    1989 PIT 96 144 34 6 19 58 93 93 32 .248 .351 .426 .777
    1990 PIT 104 156 32 3 33 114 93 83 52 .301 .406 .565 .970
    1991 PIT 95 149 28 5 25 116 107 73 43 .292 .410 .514 .924
    1992 PIT 109 147 36 5 34 103 127 69 39 .311 .456 .624 1.080
    1993 SF 129 181 38 4 46 123 126 79 29 .336 .458 .677 1.136
    1994 SF 89 122 18 1 37 81 74 43 29 .312 .426 .647 1.073
    1995 SF 109 149 30 7 33 104 120 83 31 .294 .432 .577 1.009
    1996 SF 122 159 27 3 42 129 151 76 40 .308 .461 .615 1.076
    1997 SF 123 155 26 5 40 101 145 87 37 .291 .446 .585 1.031
    1998 SF 120 167 44 7 37 122 130 92 28 .303 .438 .609 1.047
    1999 SF 91 93 20 2 34 83 73 62 15 .262 .389 .617 1.006
    2000 SF 129 147 28 4 49 106 117 77 11 .306 .440 .688 1.127
    2001 SF 129 156 32 2 73 137 177 93 13 .328 .515 .863 1.379
    2002 SF 117 149 31 2 46 110 198 47 9 .370 .582 .799 1.381
    2003 SF 111 133 22 1 45 90 148 58 7 .341 .529 .749 1.278
    2004 SF 129 135 27 3 45 101 232 41 6 .362 .609 .812 1.422
    2005 SF 8 12 1 0 5 10 9 6 0 .286 .404 .667 1.071
    2006 SF 74 99 23 0 26 77 115 51 3 .270 .454 .545 .999
    2007 SF 47 61 10 0 17 42 94 38 5 .277 .495 .555 1.050


    source

    http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/3918/career;_ylt=AiJHZrDf2mQzFIxZWau1yNyFCLcF
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  7. double ML

    double ML Guest

    vote= hash
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  8. Nam Dekan

    Nam Dekan i got a tip in my pocket

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    that surge in home runs from about 35-46 isn't that strong of an argument, because then you could apply that to Griffey. Griffey had his first 40+ year in 1993 as well, went from 25-27 to about 45. Look at something big that happened in 1993, expansion, thinned talent pool. Not saying Bonds didn't juice at that time but if you use that for your basis then ignore others who had that same upswing at the sametime is ridiculous. Aaron wasn't some big dominant home run hitter throughout his career, he was consistent and injury free. In fact about 3/4 of his career was spent under 40 homeruns. I think if he did use, he didn't start until after the McGwire/Sosa chase because he prolly wanted some of that light on him..
    Not saying he didn't use, but hey before 2002 it was all fine and legal to use, and whose fault is that? Bud Selig whom is a dumbass...
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  9. MyKe SeaN

    MyKe SeaN Paula Deen is my hero.

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    Who doesnt improve dramatically after being in the big leagues for 5-6 years? Everybody steps up their game sometime in their career in every sport. Your argument is retarded.

    And I agree, Babe Ruth might've had raw talent but he was playing in a segregated league who didnt allow some of the best African Americans and Hispanics to participate.

    If the World Cup only allowed European countries to Participate everybody would think that Beckham was the greatest player not knowing that there was a more superior player playing in Brazil by the name of Ronaldihno. You see my point?

    And from what I heard, the Yankees used to get their asses handed to them by some of the Negro League teams during the exhibition games.

    There was a reason why the NFL, NBA and the Major Leagues became more entertaining once they started letting the very best participate.

    Babe Ruth was a beast dont get me wrong but I'm sure there were 6 or 7 ball players during the 20's and 30's who had the same amount of raw talent or more than he did but they were never given the opportunity because of the fear that Whites Had for blacks back in the day.
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  10. Nam Dekan

    Nam Dekan i got a tip in my pocket

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    Hispanics weren't actually barred from the major leagues, well darker ones were but there were quite a few in the majors then. Native Americans werent barred either. In some cases I know they tried to pass darker skinned hispanics off as Native Americans.

    Integration in baseball would've happened a whole hell of a lot sooner if it wasn't for Kennesaw Mountain Landis. Managers like John McGraw pushed for it and I think an owner Bill Veeck at one point wanted to buy the Pirates I think and was going to field a whole black team but Landis put a stop to him buying the team.

    The crazy thing about it was that it wasn't a written rule or regulation it was what they called a gentlemans agreement made in the 1880's when the biggest star at the time Cap Anson refused to play against a team that had black players, and got others behind him..


    But i agree about the upswing in home runs. Bonds increase wasn't even dramatic. You want dramatic peep Brady Anderson 16 to 50, or Luis Gonzalez 31 to 57. Bonds jumped from 35 to 46 and then until that big season of 73 he bounced around the 30's and 40's
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  11. MyKe SeaN

    MyKe SeaN Paula Deen is my hero.

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    ^Well a lot of Native Americans could easily pass for white just look at Jim Thorpe. I'm sure they let a few half breeded hispanics in the league. They probably had to lie and say they were from Spain or Italy. I know for a fact that Mexicans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans and most south americans weren't allowed into the Majors. Thats why there were a lot of puerto ricans, dominicans and mexicans in the negro leagues. Cats like Cool Papa Bell and Satcho Page played for South American and Mexican leagues during their off seasons.

    And the end of the day, Steroids doesn't help out your timing, technique and hand/Eye coordination. Bonds is still that dude.

    Oh yea, Willie Mays was the greatest Baseball Player ever. He did EVERYTHING! Satcho Page shits on Cy Young and Ty Cobb was a racist who was scarred to compete against blacks because he knew they were superior athletes
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  12. MyKe SeaN

    MyKe SeaN Paula Deen is my hero.

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    oh yea, Negro league teams beat Major League Teams 72% of the times they played. Men Lie, Women Lie but numbers dont.
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  13. Old Soul

    Old Soul Nipple Nibbler

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  14. Nam Dekan

    Nam Dekan i got a tip in my pocket

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    Thorpe was a half breed though, have you ever seen Natives out west though? Plus why use Thorpe and not pitching legend Albert "Chief" Bender as an example? There were quite a few hispanics in the majors in the 1920's. They were lighter skinned though. I believe the first one came to the majors in like 1918. If I recall there were mexicans in the league, they were fair skinned (think Jose Canseco complexion) though. McGraw did try to pass some Dominicans off as Navajo's though. He really wanted the league to be integrated, he was more interested in putting the best possible team on the field...

    Walter Johnson was prolly a better pitcher then Cy Yound also, so what's your point. I don't think Young was the best pitcher ever, and if you wanna talk negro league players dominating Ruth. Walter Johnson had his number as well even in the twilight years of his career. I will agree Cobb was a racist, but I can't say that he was afraid to play against certain players. Remember it was Cap Anson that refused to play against blacks.

    I do think if Griffey didn't have injury problems, he would've been shitting all over Bonds at what 6 years younger and potentially challenging the home run record, closing in on 3000 hits..
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  15. double ML

    double ML Guest

    myke has no source. he bullshits like rippy.
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  16. MyKe SeaN

    MyKe SeaN Paula Deen is my hero.

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    ^African Americans dominate every sport when given a chance. Thats my source.
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  17. John Madden

    John Madden True Value

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    Source? Now please reveal your source that Old Soul questioned you about or else it will just be another post pulled directly from your ass.

    You forget that in the negro leagues they weren't taking on the best either. So how come you never call their talent into question? You are extremely biased, now I will let Mr. ML rip you a new one.

    Now get with that source
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  18. Offbeat

    Offbeat New Member

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    that's not true though.

    baseball is majority white.
    the best NBA players are white.
    the NFL is mixed in it's higher talent.

    the only sport blacks have is golf.
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  19. MyKe SeaN

    MyKe SeaN Paula Deen is my hero.

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    ^^^Are you serious??...lol@the Best NBA players being white...With the exception of Steve Nash, most of the white NBA players are from Europe. Steve Nash is from Canada his damn self. The vast majority of NBA players in a 12 man rotation are Black....Just because you have 1 or 2 stand out whites doesn't mean shit. Steve Nash and Dirk are great players but they aren't the most dominant.

    The most dominant players in Baseball are either black or hispanic. Whites for the most part have pitching on lock.

    The Majority of starting players in the NFL are black.

    Tiger Woods is one of the few half breeds in Golf and he runs shit. I would say whites still dominate Golf but then again Golf is an individual sport and the most dominate player in Golf for the past 10 years happens to be a half breed.

    We Own in track n field

    Ya'll can have the Worlds Strongest Man competition cus aint no cake in that bullshit.

    An African American holds the world record in freestyle swimming.

    Aint no Hockey rinks in the hood...

    All of the great Heavyweights are playing football

    Wladimr Klitschko is my dude.
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  20. pestilence

    pestilence now believes he's hyphy.

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    Don't argue Ryan and Clemens... and don't ever use strikeouts as the basis for anything.... One stat catagory should never... ever... be the basis for your argument...

    Clemens has 1200 less walks... better ERA... Better WHIP... better fielding percentage by about .100 points... over 100 less losses... almost 30 more wins...

    Ryan was a great pitcher... but he wasn't Clemens...
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