Michael Jackson's biggest mistake musically was...

Discussion in 'The R&B Haven' started by Ignorant, Jan 30, 2008.

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  1. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    ...not keeping Quincy Jones as his chief producer.

    I've always felt this way, but nobody seems to acknowledge it.

    So let's look at his catalogue... his three best albums as a solo artist are Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad... they're all monumental classics and monster sellers... and they have one thing in common, unlike his other albums... they were all produced by Q.

    In the '90s, he decided to go with New Jack Swing producer Teddy Riley as the main guy overseeing his Dangerous album. Now Teddy is a legend in his own right, but I never felt the chemistry with him and MJ was as magical as it was with MJ and Q... except for maybe "Remember the Time," which is incredibly funky and soulful, that whole Dangerous album is languid.

    And let's not even talk about '01's Invincible joint.

    He did have some magic with R. Kelly and the "You Are Not Alone" single, but nothing ever approach the artistry of his earlier joints.

    Janet kept Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis... why didn't Michael keep Quincy Jones?
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  2. The Jeus

    The Jeus _________

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    I didn't even know this was debatable.

    And for the record I thought a few songs on Invincible were passable.
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  3. R-Tistic

    R-Tistic Your favorite DJ

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    For the time, him workin with Teddy was the best thing he could have done...but producer-hopping can have severe consequences, especially if the chemistry isn't there. He worked with Darkchild, who in 2000-2001 was big, but nowhere near the level of Teddy during the New Jack Swing era...so the single "You rock my world" was nothing but a decent, average, regular song. I felt "Butterflies" was amazing, and is the best song he's done since "Remember the time"...but a lot of people won't credit it because Floetry not only wrote it, but already did the song before Mike's version, and people think theirs is better.

    If he didn't want to work with Quincy during the 90's and this decade, he should have at least kept going with the heavy hitters, and making them bring their "A" game. I can imagine him on hundreds of major hits that dropped since the 90's....such as Touch me tease me, Are you that somebody (using a completely different vocal arrangement and concept of course), Ne-Yo ft. Jay-Z's "Crazy" (which sounds like it was written for Mike), Blackstreet "Before I let go" (Teddy Riley again), R. Kelly "I believe I can fly" (could have even been the same exact song), 112 "Only you", Mint Condition "Pretty Brown eyes", etc. etc....and if not these exact songs, just songs that had the same exact vibe and sound of these tracks.

    I think his biggest mistake musically was just getting distracted by everything from being a star, to always being in the spotlight from something negative. If he had been staying active with music, and still dropping major hits, people would have forgave him quicker, or even ignored what was going on...arguably in the same way people did with R. Kelly.
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  4. crack music

    crack music New Member

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    crack music
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  5. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    Great Answer...
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  6. M.Maestro

    M.Maestro Ghost

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    SHould've stayed with the Q Man.
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  7. Gritty Gabino

    Gritty Gabino New Member

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    michael jackson as legend is not debatable......but i agree with the quincy jones fact and maybe that long video he made for "you rock my world"
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  8. quincy was a beast
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  9. stargurl84

    stargurl84 New Member

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    i miss the old MJ...he was awesome
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  10. TadStrongo

    TadStrongo New Member

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    How do you think an original MJ album would fair in today's marketplace if it was decent?
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  11. R-Tistic

    R-Tistic Your favorite DJ

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    Mike walks that fine line of being accepted and loved by his fans, and being hated by those against him...and he's in the place where him dropping an album could make him lean more towards one of those sides, just like R. Kelly did. People were talkin about Kelly like he was the worst person in history after the sex tapes, and even celebrities and aritsts he worked with sold him out...but when he came back strong a year later, people forgot (or ignored) all the legal trouble he was in.

    Most of the youth today has heard Mike's name MUCH MORE for being in the news than for music, even though they hear his music every time they step outside their house, and even though he influenced half of the artists they listen to, whether they are rock fans, r&b fans, or even rap fans.

    Overall...I think he would need an album that didn't just focus on making "flavor of the month" type music like Crank dat, and he would have to make something that sounded timeless, but was still catchy enough to appeal to these youngsters who seem to need a dance to go along with their favorite hits. He would also need a few "hot" stars to co-sign for him, just so that the wishy-washy fans end up ridin back with him.
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  12. E. Fate

    E. Fate Guest

    Ill never understand why people hate on Invincible....that album was awesome to me. Teddy Riley, Darkchild and Will I Am (based on the remakes he did off the 25th Anniversary) would be a good mix if he didn't go with Q.
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  13. restlessmind

    restlessmind New Member

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    Yeah.. Quincy's a genius... if it's not broke don't try to fix it...
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  14. R-Tistic

    R-Tistic Your favorite DJ

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    The best review or criticism I ever heard about that was that "on Invincible, Mike basically tried to imitate the style and sound of those who had imitated him, such as N'Sync/Justin Timberlake and Usher."

    Listenin to the album, it sounded like everything else that was out at the time, but with more filler. The only timeless song he had on there was "Butterflies" which was dope as hell, but people who are Floetry fans still prefer their original version over his. The main single, "You rock my world" sounded like everything else Darkchild did, and was a decent song for the time, but wasn't anything to be remembered and loved forever.

    The same way that that album went 2 times Platinum and was considered a flop is the same way that people called this album wack/bad/terrible/average...it would have been decent for any regular R&B or pop star, but not for Mike. He has always made classic albums that were the best representation of the music at that time period...and with this album, it just didn't hit like that. Off the wall was probably the best pure album of the disco era....Thriller was Thriller....Bad was one of the best 80's Rock/Pop style albums...Dangerous was a classic New Jack Swing album...Jackson Five made timeless songs to represent that Motown soulful pop sound....so for Mike to drop an album that wasn't even as good as albums from cats like Musiq Soulchild who was new at the time made it a huge disappointment.
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  15. Ignorant

    Ignorant Village Idiot

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    ^Exactly... Mike had created his own standard to the point that he couldn't regress and adhere to somebody else's.

    It's like when MJ came back and played for the Wizards... he was only scoring 23 points a game... when he was used to scoring 32-37 during his prime.
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  16. M.Maestro

    M.Maestro Ghost

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    Should've had me exec Invincible.
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  17. Ixtlan

    Ixtlan emceeingain'tforyou...

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    I like the fact that Mike tried to stretch out and do something different.
    Staying with Q was safe.
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  18. *DowntownStar*

    *DowntownStar* ____________________

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    There's more to it than Michael not working with Quincy and Bruce Swieden.

    The musical climate had changed considerably from anthemic 80s music to smaller and more dystopian alternative, nihilistically funky hiphop, swaggerish slick urban pop, and earnest new country. The advent of Soundscan record sales tracking by the RIAA proved to the industry beyond a shadow of a doubt that the 80s bestsellers' numbers represented shipment numbers more than actual sales figures, putting the platinum and diamond certifications from the past into question and allowing hitherto ignored musical styles (such as new country and hiphop) to post up their first multiplatinum smash hits.

    Also, Michael had lost touch with his black audience by the time the 90s came around. Black pop and underground music had changed over Michael's decade-long reign. Whitney Houston and BoyzIIMen notwithstanding, urban radio had almost completely abandoned the retronuevo musical style in favour of harder-edged youth music represented by Public Enemy, NWA, Tone Loc, and the 2 Live Crew. Michael had to adapt to the new styles or become obsolete. Notice that his rival Prince faced the same kind of about-face in the late 80s: from his fumbling around with rap on the Black album, to his sprawling oldschool ode Sign O, and finally his settling for the middle ground with the New Power Generation and renegotiating his recording contracts with Warner Brothers. In fact Michael's sister Janet also faced the same problem herself but she wisely resolved it by retreating from the Prince-style robofunk of Rhythm Nation 1814 in favour of the New Jack Swing and Neosoul stylings on janet. Fortunately for Janet, Jam & Lewis were flexible enough musical collaborators that she never needed to leave them in the 90s. I do have to say that she knows her time with them is over and recently she wisely left Jam & Lewis and started working with Jermaine Dupri.

    Again, and this is something that is only known to music industry insiders, but Michael's most trusted music industry mentor Walter Yetnikoff was forced out of his job as head of CBS/Sony in a very ugly music business showdown. Not many people know this, but Yetnikoff is actually responsible for stragetgizing much of Michael's career, including naming his albums and helping design concepts for Michael's groundbreaking videos. Walter Yetnikoff is now no longer in the music business and Michael has been adrift since Yetnikoff's firing in the early 90s.

    Finally, Michael's always curious public behaviour had become intolerable to the media and he needed a strong shift in their perception of him to stem the tide of accusations that would eventually derail his career entirely. As the most eligible bachelor in the entire world, it is absolutely amazing that Michael has NEVER had an affair or relationship - it pointed to trouble in paradise. And as the most visible celebrity on the planet bar none, his habits of sleeping with little children and animals had to catch up to him in a way that would be his undoing. Point blank Michael should have gone in for psychiatric counselling sometime in 1987, and maybe if he had his life would have turned out very differently. But i digress.

    Now that the 80s revival is in full swing, Michael would be very wise to return to Quincy and Swieden and do another album. It would be exactly what his career needs.
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