Medias effect on Music...HipHop Praticularly

Discussion in 'Battle Video Archives' started by CinemA, Oct 22, 2003.

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  1. CinemA

    CinemA Direct Connection/No DSL

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    Vakill2464: what!! holy shit, look at this
    Vakill2464: http://board.rapmusic.com/showthrea...threadid=657035
    Vakill2464: read that shit
    C Dot ClipS: ill
    C Dot ClipS: wake up show
    C Dot ClipS: <-- is still not going to watch MTV
    Vakill2464: damn, thats fuckni sick, i love the wake up show
    Vakill2464: lol i'll only watch it for that, i'm a big wake up show fan, i got all 7 volumes and everything
    Vakill2464: but i'm crossin my fingers MTV jsut lets sway tech and revolution do their thing, like they have for the past 13 years
    C Dot ClipS: yeh
    Vakill2464: caause wake up show has had some of the all tiem ilelst on that shit
    Vakill2464: but i cant really picturing ras kass, juice, and chino spitti on mtv
    C Dot ClipS: i bet they gonna fuck the whole shit up
    C Dot ClipS: and they cant slip and cuss on mtv
    Vakill2464: i'l be PISSED if they have nelly and shit on ti, that woudl ruin it, hopfully sway lays down the law, and try to explain thats now the wake up show
    C Dot ClipS: and you cant have radio beef on tv
    Vakill2464: i know
    Vakill2464: i bet it'll be on mad late too
    C Dot ClipS: maybe, i doubt it tho
    C Dot ClipS: the cool thing to do now is underground
    C Dot ClipS: so they might put it out on front
    Vakill2464: i was jsut gonna say that
    C Dot ClipS: they played some aesop rock video, my sister saw it
    C Dot ClipS: and they got tone etc. durring hiphop week to do commercials
    C Dot ClipS: tahts teh new big thing, acting underground
    Vakill2464: i know!! pack fm was on it, wordsworth, i think jean grea, mecca and shit
    Vakill2464: i know
    Vakill2464: and all teh commercial cats will prob jump on the undergorund dick
    Vakill2464: lol theres always room for hope, and hopefully this will tun out ill lol
    Vakill2464: i know i'm def gonna record that shit too if its ill
    C Dot ClipS: yeh
    C Dot ClipS: i smell a gimmic tho
    Vakill2464: lol what u mean? that pretty soon everyhtign will be undergorund
    C Dot ClipS: basically,a nd it will be glam-underground
    C Dot ClipS: liek the glam-street shit taht is slowly fading away
    C Dot ClipS: its all pop culture
    Vakill2464: yaeh
    C Dot ClipS: and i hate it
    C Dot ClipS: but its coming
    C Dot ClipS: fuckin major labels coming to UNDERGROUND shows scouting now
    Vakill2464: naw really?
    Vakill2464: then it comes down to if that emcee will aceept to be aigned or not
    C Dot ClipS: its not that easy
    C Dot ClipS: they scout um and harras um, and try to sign um
    Vakill2464: yeh i know, that shit is all fucked up
    Vakill2464: that
    C Dot ClipS: really when you get signed to a major label, your signing your talent over to slavery
    Vakill2464: that'll suck if undergorund goes pop
    C Dot ClipS: i feel it
    Vakill2464: i know, major lables are as crooked as any other major bisuness in usa
    C Dot ClipS: its happened to EVERY other music
    Vakill2464: i know
    C Dot ClipS: its happened to street hop
    Vakill2464: jazz, blues, rock, kinda hip hop, in a commercial sence, r&b, country
    C Dot ClipS: remember when taht was only acceptable from people who lived it?
    C Dot ClipS: watch how much nerd rap drops by 2005
    Vakill2464: i know
    C Dot ClipS: and how many records lets say...def jux sells compared to b4
    C Dot ClipS: but i gotta say
    Vakill2464: not a big fan of that nerd shit though lol
    C Dot ClipS: this is tone and packs chance
    C Dot ClipS: yeh, but watch
    C Dot ClipS: maybe not pack
    C Dot ClipS: but tone
    Vakill2464: tone is a gem
    C Dot ClipS: thats not the point tho
    C Dot ClipS: hes the IN thing now
    Vakill2464: yeah
    C Dot ClipS: i garentee you major peeps been in his anal cavity since that MTV deal
    Vakill2464: lol prob
    C Dot ClipS: thats what sucks about rich people and followers
    Vakill2464: i can GARUANTEEE itech will never be with a major lable
    Vakill2464: rick people are followers lol
    Vakill2464: rich
    C Dot ClipS: the followers the most the, the rich people are just making a living
    C Dot ClipS: the following little sheeps do what they see the media does
    Vakill2464: i'm not knockin the hard wokrin rich guy, like the architect that designs buliding, and a comp nerd that made a new software, i'mt lakin bout rich people liek the head of major lables and shit
    C Dot ClipS: all i can say is i hope someone fucks it up for popular underground
    Vakill2464: yeah, like everyhtig is thugged, so everyone ahs to act like that
    Vakill2464: yeah, but i dont know anyone that would fuck it up
    C Dot ClipS: i just HOPE
    C Dot ClipS: i hope they get signed and completely make an ass out of them selves or sumfin
    Vakill2464: lol i hear ya, but to not make the undergorund popular is a hard task
    C Dot ClipS: tahts teh only way undgerground hiphop will surivive
    C Dot ClipS: yeh
    test
  2. CinemA

    CinemA Direct Connection/No DSL

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    Vakill2464: lol that a bigg ass bullet to take though
    C Dot ClipS: but everyones such a sheep
    C Dot ClipS: i would do it
    C Dot ClipS: fuck it
    C Dot ClipS: thats a whole culture
    Vakill2464: tehn u gotta put urself in their shoes and intentionally ruin ur career
    Vakill2464: the results are good, but there has to be so pretty fuckin bad results in it
    C Dot ClipS: you would still be dope on the underground, 85% of teh underground could care less what you done on def jam records as long as you can do your thing still
    C Dot ClipS: think about THAT

    C Dot ClipS: if that was the case, we wouldnt listen to tone
    Vakill2464: true, one of the good things would be respect, ur respect level would go thru the roof
    C Dot ClipS: that fucker had a chace to be signed over and over
    C Dot ClipS: even in 1993
    Vakill2464: really? damn
    C Dot ClipS: but he keeps rejecting it
    C Dot ClipS: now taht you know that, does that make you not think that "love aint" verse is wack?
    C Dot ClipS: its all logics
    Vakill2464: naw,, no way love aint verse is wack
    C Dot ClipS: thank you, you just proved yourself wrong
    Vakill2464: lol i know
    C Dot ClipS: but, underground rappers, alot of them, are hipocrits
    C Dot ClipS: they would rather be mainstream, but they arent appealing
    Vakill2464: yeah
    C Dot ClipS: but now taht this is what they are looking for
    C Dot ClipS: muhfuckas are gonna jump RIGHT on the bandwagon
    Vakill2464: yeah
    C Dot ClipS: a fuckin aesop video on MTV
    C Dot ClipS: you know they dont even go together
    Vakill2464: i never looked at it like "i'm gonna be underground" i jsut did my thing, and jsut kept doin it, and most people would consider it underground
    C Dot ClipS: this little kid said to me today...
    Vakill2464: lol i know
    C Dot ClipS: "your that underground rapper arent you"
    Vakill2464: lol
    C Dot ClipS: now wtf is a 14 year old know about the underground?
    Vakill2464: nothing
    C Dot ClipS: he heard taht shit somewhere, and prolly on tv
    Vakill2464: yeah, or from an oolder kid
    Vakill2464: i hear ya, everyone calls me the underground kid, cause what i listen to, and my raps
    C Dot ClipS: this is the begininng of teh end of underground hiphop as we know it
    Vakill2464: lol damn, thast blows
    C Dot ClipS: and heres another example
    Vakill2464: we need more itechs lol
    C Dot ClipS: motherfuckin rock and roll channel playing shit like christina agulera
    Vakill2464: lol yup
    C Dot ClipS: back in the 60s and 70s, shit was HARD ONLY
    Vakill2464: and that formed into "soft rock"
    C Dot ClipS: and then they got popular in the 80's,a nd fell off in the 90's
    C Dot ClipS: now rock is dead
    C Dot ClipS: yep
    Vakill2464: and "soft rock" is basiclaly ANYTHING, they says it "rock" but there is not 1 REAL intrument played in that song
    C Dot ClipS: tahts gonan happen to hiphop
    C Dot ClipS: yep
    C Dot ClipS: and i know music collabs and shit are coo
    C Dot ClipS: but people like neptunes fucked over street hop
    Vakill2464: yeah
    C Dot ClipS: doin collabs with peeps like timberlake and britney
    Vakill2464: noooo shit son
    C Dot ClipS: they are decent beat makers, but they are HIPHOP
    C Dot ClipS: not hipPOP
    Vakill2464: and fake ass r&b bitches over classic hip hop beats
    C Dot ClipS: yep
    Vakill2464: like ashanti, j lo etc
    C Dot ClipS: jlo over beatnuts
    C Dot ClipS: wtf
    C Dot ClipS: no comp
    test
  3. CinemA

    CinemA Direct Connection/No DSL

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    Vakill2464: no shit!! wtf was that bout
    C Dot ClipS: and check it, the most fucked up one ever
    Vakill2464: i was pissed when i heard that, i mean tis the beat nuts, those 2 are legends
    C Dot ClipS: blues, to r& b, to ja rule and ashanti
    Vakill2464: yup
    Vakill2464: there is nooooo blues in r&b
    Vakill2464: its just rhythem
    C Dot ClipS: i would LOVE to hear jarule and ashanti do a blues track
    Vakill2464: this is when i wish someone like pun ws still around lol
    C Dot ClipS: and ja rule, if i ever met him ide slug him
    Vakill2464: LOL me too
    Vakill2464: ja rule = j los hype man
    C Dot ClipS: come in the game as little DMX, now that bitch is barry white jr.
    Vakill2464: lol yup
    Vakill2464: everyone has lost the real truth bout hip hop
    C Dot ClipS: yep
    Vakill2464: its fun/culture, but ceos look at it as money symbols and a way to sale shit
    Vakill2464: sell*
    C Dot ClipS: but nelly, i cant trip on nelly, hes accually been consistant with his shit
    C Dot ClipS: they just made him out to be sumfin hes not
    C Dot ClipS: but if you listen to the first nelly song, and the newest rellease, its basically the same speed
    C Dot ClipS: so, i can feel him, respect wise
    Vakill2464: yeha, ur right on that
    Vakill2464: he aint lyrcial, hes jsut makes club anthems
    Vakill2464: but peeps like 50 fuck shit up soo bad
    C Dot ClipS: i wanna beat his ass too
    C Dot ClipS: nahh really i wanna beat up the great white hope
    C Dot ClipS: eminem is the underground antichrist
    Vakill2464: no shit, and look how he started out
    C Dot ClipS: he comes out with his UNDERGROUND style, and puts out all this shit sells fuckin billions, then goes and expliotes the scene by making a movie
    C Dot ClipS: now everyones a rapper
    C Dot ClipS: and when underground falls to pop itll be ems fault
    Vakill2464: yup
    C Dot ClipS: so i really cant blame 50, i just cant stand him
    Vakill2464: and he pretty much fucked it up for alot of white dudes lol
    C Dot ClipS: but em is a fuckin heathen
    Vakill2464: ok, how many times when u see hear a white guy rappin, wether hes good, bad, or doesnt even sound like em, u hear "ooo u fuckin eminem wanna be"
    Vakill2464: see or hear*
    C Dot ClipS: exaccally
    Vakill2464: and the sad thng is, em was dope, i cant deny it, he had skills he ripped shit up
    C Dot ClipS: like the underground aint 70% white boys anway
    C Dot ClipS: yews he did, but he was $$ hungry and he used his culture to blow him up
    Vakill2464: and 70% of the people now think there si soooooo many white guys jsut because of eminem
    Vakill2464: but its not even close ot being true
    Vakill2464: like all of a sudden every white guy turned into hiop hop, not to say that white guy didnt join cause of em, but white dudes have been in shit for a good amount of time
    C Dot ClipS: nope
    C Dot ClipS: yep
    C Dot ClipS: eminem is rediculous, adolph hiphop
    Vakill2464: thats why it pisses me off when i get labled with that shit, and i was listenin to this before ANYONE even know that fuckin guy lol
    Vakill2464: yup
    C Dot ClipS: and the bad thing is, i think its too late
    Vakill2464: and i think thats why i think soo many peeps hate on bis, cause bis see this shit, but no one is smart enouhg to realize it
    Vakill2464: yeah
    Vakill2464: it is
    Vakill2464: and look at who em chilled with before he blew
    C Dot ClipS: yeh, canibus calls em a fuckin fake all teh time,a nd its a shame cuzz teh media and teh followers get against him, but the few that matter, teh underground are outnumbered
    C Dot ClipS: and not outspoken
    Vakill2464: yeah
    C Dot ClipS: tahts sooo rediculous
    Vakill2464: and thats why i like bis so much, if u listen to his new shit, one line that stick out the most is "people look at me like "oo u poor bastard, why cant u minipulate billboards with all ur metaphore magic" no matter how hard i practise, every mic i sorta grabbed it, obvioulsy that was the wrong tactic"
    C Dot ClipS: watch some ass hole rich group sponsor some big huge ass battle
    C Dot ClipS: and an imitation backpacker will win
    Vakill2464: yup
    Vakill2464: like roc the mic???
    C Dot ClipS: exacally
    Vakill2464: k, first offf battles were never head of, people were likfe wtf??? whats a battle, then 8 mile, THEN roc the mic, THEN mtv is hostin their own special series of it
    C Dot ClipS: YES
    C Dot ClipS: we used to battle in school in 9th grade, like 4 years ago
    C Dot ClipS: and people would look @ us like we were aliens
    C Dot ClipS: now little herb as clowns try to jump in teh cyphers
    Vakill2464: yo before 8 mile was even tought of, i got like 3 cds of all battles collectin dust, and some kid saw what iwas listeni to, and again refered to me as eminem
    Vakill2464: nooo shit
    Vakill2464: thought*
    C Dot ClipS: uh huh
    C Dot ClipS: im glad in not white, i couldnt take that eminem shit, as much as i despise him
    C Dot ClipS: steve gets thats hit all the time
    Vakill2464: well ur older than me, i've really got into the undergorund prob liek te end of 7th grade, like it started of with wu, then i woudl hear bout killa priest, then into 4 horasemen like rass adn so on, but i didnt start writin tilla little bit ago
    Vakill2464: yeah, it sucks lol
    C Dot ClipS: true, my underground shit started with wu - 36 chambers
    Vakill2464: yeah
    Vakill2464: and i jsut kept diggin and diggin and diggin
    Vakill2464: and i look at it like "alright lets spit some shit, have a good time, and not give a fuck what other think"
    Vakill2464: but the media makes it look like thats the ONYL way to get fast moeny and shit
    C Dot ClipS: yeh
    C Dot ClipS: media can suck my dick, eminem can suck my dick,and those derilict ass following sheep bastards can all die
    test
  4. CinemA

    CinemA Direct Connection/No DSL

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    i wouldnt recomend reading it all, but its basically about sosiety and the leading performers leading every genre into damnation. and that hiphop is following the same path as r&b, classic rock, blues etc.

    drop your thoughts
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  5. bigpun8686

    bigpun8686 New Member

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    all i gotta say is fuck the media, dont belive it, think for urself, and dont let them make up ur own mind, and the more peeps do that, the more it will hurt the major lables and the way media can effect u, dont follow the crowd, and think for urself thats why u have a brain, we're not robots

    peace
    test
  6. AgentofKarma

    AgentofKarma New Member

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    being white, i can relate to this....
    i get these dipset motherfuckers sayin im eminem wannabe, and i tell these clowns straight up that I am more hip hop than they will ever be,

    It started with LL, and run-DMC, and Big Daddy Kane, shit then i was just a kid...but being where I was this was THE music...and yes, then Wu dropped and brought it back...and that was my influence to start, I must have listened to CREAM every day for a year in 94, and now 9 years after my first schoolyard battles i gotta listen to some fuckin fabolous lookin motherfucker tell me Im eminem, that I started battling cuz of fucking 8 mile, I haven't even seen that movie aside from the battle parts i downloaded and they were garbage...these kids dont even know who the fuck the juice crew is or eric b. and i was never a fan of eminem and find his gimmick insulting...

    to say that hip hop music is a black culture is not accurate...yes Kool Herc and others in the Bronx era started it, but not everyone involved in those early movements was black, then later youve got Rick Rubin producing hella hip hop, just because there are more of one race involved in something than another doesn't make it exclusive to that race...its racism...to say that...
    Kool Herc is the "godfather" and this man is accepting of caucasians in this artform he is instrumental in creating...he is a friend of a good friend of mine whos workin on beats for me, and hes white...the exclusiveness came later with the impact of the nation of islam...which i resent, they are racists and their teachings are ways to numb the minds of the ignorant and create a power trip...look into the religion if you dont believe me, and if you are 5 percent or N.O.I. I'd be happy to debate, but to say that a race is the mutation of another (tribe of yacub theory) is a scientific farce, along with most of the tenets of that movement i.e. (spaceships, math ideologies) and if you call me a white devil you better have the intelligence or balls to back up what you are saying...

    i think it comes down to socio-economic status....in my opinion, the downfall of hip hop is the corporate bullshitification of an artform that once belonged to the people, now it belongs to the dollar bill...artists come out with no respect for the game...no knowledge...its going in the wrong direction...

    the key is to make better music, make it so someone like IT is available in stores, that kid is like the new public enemy right now, but he will be supressed by the puppetmasters because of his message...the key is to make the underground have a purpose, and a vision again...something to be proud of, not this abstract shit, or this battle-focused thing, or this demeaning to women bullshit...it needs a revolution to a better time, or a renaissance....

    *raises right fist*
    test
  7. THE m AGE

    THE m AGE soon

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    I hate hiphop hippies.

    you live in a a society controlled by teh media. fuck underground, fuck mainstream, do you. I hate everyone, so damn right im gonna take the only thing that I have a passion for and make money off it.


    all you guys care about is YOURSELVES, cuz this is what YOU feel about the industry. Eminem did the same thing. He acted on his wants and opinions , and then he blew up. you would do teh same. but you aint blew up.


    I hate over analyzaton. this is teh antural progression of music in a capitalist society. you dont like it, move to canada, or london.
    test
  8. phillipdrummond

    phillipdrummond get at me for footage

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    platinum teeth, I feel you.
    test
  9. Lrebel

    Lrebel Guerrilla Blitzkrieg

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    platinum teeth...you seem to be talking out of anger...5%ers has been influential in Hip-Hop...ahh, you know Wu-Tang members are 5%ers check their rhymes again.check the slang you copy. G, OG, BOND, WORD, etc...I'm not a 5% or NOI member though. Their politics are way apart from mine. I don't believe in religion. I'm accepting of all races in Hip-Hop, but I'm also accepting of facts. To say Hip-Hop is Black is to say Spaghetti (how it is now...China began pasta) is Italian is to say martial arts Kung Fu is Chinese.

    Just because Hip-Hop's not as old as the two latters doesn't make it less true. There are guidelines to every culture. Some of you speak as if Hip-Hop started when you got in it...or like only 10, 15, 20 years ago.

    I wrote an article breaking down why Hip-Hop is Black. It's on kickgame . com. It HAS NOTHING TO DO W/ THERE BEING A LOT OF BLACKS IN IT. Because basketball is white made and white controlled. It was made for whites intially, thus it is white. Just because some people came in later doesn't change the premise. Of course now the premise is money. That was never Hip-Hop's premise.

    The truth of the matter is had MTV kept BARRING Hip-Hop videos in the beginning, whites would not feel a bond to Hip-Hop that they do have now. Just look at the previous statements. Every white cat (here) got hooked to Hip-Hop in the mid-90's w/ WU. AND YES EMINEM HELPED SUBSTANTIALLY TO THAT BOND. Whites who hate him cannot deny the truth.

    When I was growing up on Hip-Hop there was no white cats talking any pure Hip-Hop shit or "I'm Hip-Hop". This is ALL new. beastis boys, Vanilla ice, third base, & all did it for money & fame. Of course that's ok by capitalism's standards but, the point is let's not distort facts and history or speak abstract opinionated crap. Hip-Hop is Black. If that's racism then all Italians and Chinese are racists as well.

    Correction platinum: Kool Herc is the FATHER & Afrika Bambaataa is the Godfather & you may want to check their site first.
    test
  10. Sin-Tax

    Sin-Tax New Member

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    i think thats the nail in the coffin.

    you sonned him like no other
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  11. AgentofKarma

    AgentofKarma New Member

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    yes LRebel....

    i know the Wu are 5 percent...and i know where "word is bond" came from, what I find hilarious is white kids talking about "knowledge of self" and "mathematics" and not knowing that they are degrading themselves, I disagree however, that hip-hop is a black artform, when people like Kool Herc and Bambatta started this thing (and I don't have to check a website because one of my closest friends shops for records and does zulu nation events with them) they made MUSIC, music for people that wasn't intended to be specific to one race....I never "copied" slang, I was involved in the slang because thats how people of all races speak where I grew up... plus I dont see how G or OG has anything to do with NOI, when they stand for gangsta or original gangsta...I never had MTV growing up, I dubbed LL and Run-DMC off the radio, my love for hip hop absolutely did NOT begin in the 90s...eminem is incosequential to my love for hip-hop, the first white group i was into was House of Pain if you want to claim that race has anything to do with it...and by the time they came out I had listened to hip hop for years way before Yo MTV Raps...hip hop began in the bronx...so if it had never had radio, or TV exposure it would have stayed there, and NO ONE outside of there would have been exposed to it regardless of race...im not speaking out of anger as much as frustration, and when you say "every white cat (here)" I hope you aren't referring to me, you shouldn't make blanket generalizations about people you don't know... HIP-HOP is MUSIC not black music, not white music, not latin music, It's music.....
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  12. AgentofKarma

    AgentofKarma New Member

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    oh and sintax stfu....if you dont have anything to say other than "you sonned him like no other" or some asinine comment like that stay the fuck out of it...child
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  13. phillipdrummond

    phillipdrummond get at me for footage

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    double dee and steinski, frosty freeze from Rocksteady and other whites have all been involved in hip hop from the beginning. I dunno if 3rd base was just in it for the money...
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  14. Lrebel

    Lrebel Guerrilla Blitzkrieg

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    First I want to say I wasn't making generalizations platinum.
    This is what you said "then Wu dropped and brought it back...and that was my influence to start, I must have listened to CREAM every day for a year in 94...."

    If I did assume I surely didn't assume anything in regards to you.
    First, I'm going to take it easy on you. O.G. doesn't stand for original gansta...it stands for "original Gods." Which is 5%er logic. Some cats came along and fucked w/ the meaning. Again, I'm not 5%er. I tend to know more than what I believe in.

    Phillip, you can bring up all the whtie contributer as necessary, it doesn't change the creators, the climate at that time. Afrika Bambaataa & Zulu Nation goes into what lead to Hip-Hop. Some forefathers of this rap shit might even talk about Hip-Hop being "universal" and "multicultural" but it bore out of poverty in a Black neighborhood w/ Black people creating the elements, naming the elements, and the philosophy. Late HUGE contributions of Michael Jordan doesn't make basketball black.

    "when people like Kool Herc and Bambatta started this thing (and I don't have to check a website because one of my closest friends shops for records and does zulu nation events with them)"
    -platinum
    And this quote I say...

    Maybe this explains your lack of CORRECT information. everytime I'm debating w/ someone on this site they always say, "I don't need to read...." or something of the sought.

    Nov 9, 2003 I will be on the panel of the 30th anniversary of the Zulu Nation @ Bronx Musuem of the Arts, yet I do need to read websites, books, magazines, and listen to people. So if you think a close friend gives you authority or knowledge...you might want to rethink that.
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  15. THE m AGE

    THE m AGE soon

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    frosty freeze isnt white. maybe hes half, or partially.

    there are quite a few whiteboys who rolled with blacks and hispanics when hiphop started. I say: know where U came from and how it started, but dotn dwell and preach for so long on it that you stifle the future.
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  16. AgentofKarma

    AgentofKarma New Member

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    156
    LRebel...

    first of all let me say that I respect you and what you're doing with the G.A.M.E. movement, your contribution to hip hop is a lot more than I can say for myself at this point in time..

    However, I am not intimidated by you whatsoever, so there's no need for you to make comments like "I'm going to take it easy on you," if you have something to say, say it...I don't think there is anything negative about this discussion...or any reason to let egos get involved here.

    I do read, from Machiavelli to Michael Dyson, from Nietszche to Hsun-Tzu, from Langston Hughes to Oscar Wilde, from Huey Newton to Leo Tolstoy, from Alduos Huxley to Malcolm X, from Dostoevsky to Martin Luther King Jr... I have nothing to prove to myself intellectually...and I also read the articles on your website, and they were good, aside from you repeating your arguments too many times without expanding...however, i do disagree with your definitoin of underground...an artist saying that they are underground has nothing to do with their actual status...many people think Talib Kweli for instance is still underground, but that is impossible, an artist being commercial or underground has to do with the way they are marketed and presented to the public, no artist which has been on MTV can be underground...it has nothing to do with their message, or their music....

    Secondly, you thinking that the terms G and O.G. stemmed from the N.O.I. is a misconception fostered by those in that movement...it is more of their shaky rhetoric at work...for example the term G has been around since the 30s i.e. "G-men indicted in Valentine's day massacre," and O.G. was present not long after that...it is an example of a person believing everything they read, which is why I would rather hear information from Kool Herc or Bambatta as close to a first hand level as I can get, and I feel that what they convey on a personal level is more valid than what might appear on a website...

    Thirdly, you took what I said about the Wu out of context..."and yes, then Wu dropped and brought it back...and that was my influence to start" is my exact quote, i was "hooked" on hip-hop long before they came out, I am commenting on how the Wu brought hip-hop back the boom-bap, the kind of music I was feelin' in a time where hip-hop was dominated by other artists I wasn't feeling as much....I never strayed from listening to the music...and yes they did have a big influence on me beginning as an artist...i'm 21 years old, I wasn't gonna start emceeing when I first started listening to LL and Run-DMC because I was 7 years old...You say on your site that you have been listening since 1974, well I expect you to know more than me if that is the truth...in fact as that much of an "O.G." i expect a lot from you, not just veiled statements about "taking it easy" on someone who may be able to learn quite a bit from you...

    And Lastly, look at my argument like this, when peole think of who signed the constitution they think of John Hancock, and Benjamin Franklin, but without all of the other people that signed it it wouldn't have been what it was...the same with hip-hop music...there is no doubt that black people have played a greater role in the music, but it doesn't mean others don't have a positive past and future role to play...

    If I was arguing with me right now, I would argue that hip-hop is black music because of it's impact on the black community, what it has done for it's people, as far as unifying, proliferating, stabilizing...and becoming an extremely effective artform to rally against social injustice, a remarkable way to communicate cultural values, or personal stories etc.... This is a positive dicussion, and I don't want it to be a pissing contest, The sad thing is that you and I are the only to who are engaging in it...and that says a lot about the state of hip-hop

    Peace......Jay
    test
  17. THE m AGE

    THE m AGE soon

    Joined:
    May 1, 2003
    Messages:
    491
    PLAT......

    Be aware that this dude LREBEL is all about making himself look cute on a website. HEs got all these facts, and what he does is state them in a real pretentious way: he thinks hes sonning everyone.

    forgive him tho, it's something he has to do to counter some incredible insecurity he has. It makes him feel big.
    test
  18. Lrebel

    Lrebel Guerrilla Blitzkrieg

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2002
    Messages:
    907
    Platinum, I welcome & appreciate your thoughts and respect.

    You misinterpreted my explanation of what the Underground is...
    in short...the Underground is the beginning. However, it also has to do w/ thought. If you look @ other music like Country and Rock you'll find that they share the same understanding. They have their hole in the wall shows & have their own understanding of "REAL Country & Rock is." Therefore, if this is consistent w/ other Underground music then you must include it in the definition & stop making your own. This is not specific to you.

    The reason why some artists who have authority to speak on the FACTS & HISTORY distort Hip-Hop's beginning & may say Hip-Hop is multicultural as opposed to Black is because they will get no play on MTV or other media and they will get no sponsors. Even your most conscious of artists. And plus they can lose a large White supporter(I don't use 'fan') base. That's MONEY! Picture an icon from the early 70's on MTV or the stage of the Source awards saying Hip-Hop is Black. Can't right. That would chop their career in half. However, I don't earn my living rhyming nor do I want to. If you're close to NY come to the Zulu Nation Nov. 7-9 anniversary you'll find out who supports this understanding of Black Hip-Hop.

    G-Men has nothing to do w/ O.G. I'm confused why you associated them. Could I say X-men came from G-men since they are similar. Of course not. NOI and 5%ers are DIFFERENT GROUPS. 5%ers' leader was Clarence 13X who broke away from NOI. 5%ers used to rhyme in the 70's to draw crowds and teach their own brand of thought. Hip-Hop is larger than you perceive it to be. NOI never said anything about O.G. 5%ers made up O.G. and it stands for Original Gods. The first man was found in Africa therefore, 5%ers adopted this learned knowledge and context from NOI. therefore, Original Gods. 5%ers believe that the Black man is God and all Blacks have to do is look in the mirror to see God. NOI does not believe this. We can argue Hip-Hop to a point, but these are facts, my man. Many gangs BORROW 5%er logic because the raps were cool and for young people. Look at Wu-Tang, Poor Righteous Teachers, OutKast, Erika Badu, Mobb Deep, etc. They talk 5%er logic if you pay attention to the lyrics. But 5%ers weren't gangs, to be clear. Therefore, I THINK that's why people are swimming around thinking O.G. means original ganster.

    Hip-Hop is Black music. You haven't explained why it is not. I have given history tht was created by Blacks, the creed (5 elements and explanation of Hip-Hop), also the motive (I didn't get into before but, poverty, crime, gangs, lack of knowledge of Africa) & it was for Blacks initially. But, I don't recall anyone barring groups except some gangs were barred. Blacks created the name Hip-Hop and the creed, and brought the human resources. Futhermore, the first two Hip-Hop labels were both Black, but this is not needed or even permissable to support my argument. Because Hip-Hop was up and running before labels jumped in. This is stated in the White media. Whites drew near to Hip-Hop when they found a FINANCIAL INTEREST. You have to bring more information than a few whites did some of the elements. Blacks build the building in Washington D.C. White House is still the White House. It was a white idea and initially for ONLY whites.

    There is always this need for whites to feel they were huge contributers or essential to some culture, movement, struggle, or nation. This superior attitude must cease and it is not masked by your show of respect. This is brought out in you bringing up G-men and claiming w/ limited understanding of Hip-Hop and the limited information of whites in Hip-Hop in the beginning(1974). Until you show whites in Hip-Hop in the beginning in a significant light your argument is not strong enough.

    Lastly, I wasn't even born on 1974. You didn't read that on my site. That's Hip-Hop's birthday.

    Peace
    ps: excuse the cockiness...you'll find there's not adebater w/out cockiness...the objective is to show authority on the information. Cockiness is automatic. Excuse me nonetheless.
    test
  19. AgentofKarma

    AgentofKarma New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2003
    Messages:
    156
    okay....i agree with you for the most part on this...

    when i say the term "g" didn't stem from N.O.I. or 5% logic thats unrefutable...The G-men were feds who tackled gangster issues, so if you went back to 1930 and asked someone what a g was they would say that it was a gangster...but all of the argument on this is really beside the point... I could care less what race any of these old gangs were, that doesn't matter, just the origin of the term "g"....thats an infintesimal portion of this discussion, and there is a equal chance both of us are wrong, so I'll lay it to rest...

    I don't believe that all whites jumped in hip-hop due to financial motivations, there were fans from the early times, the kids at the park jams, the breakers, these people weren't there for $...i will agree however that the reason white America was exposed in the first place has everything to do with money...

    And no, I don't believe that it is necessary for white people or any other kind of people to have a strict claim to a huge part of the culture, letting black music be black music is fine, but wouldn't it be kind of racially limiting to say that white people who make hip-hop are making white music? I would prefer to think that I am making music for everyone, in a medium (hip-hop) which was intended for everyone's use in the first place, I just don't think Herc and Bambatta are the kind of guys who wish to remove another culture from this thing which they started....

    well, anyway it was a good discussion, and I'm located in Bloomington, IN at IU, so I won't be able to come to the Zulu nation event....but believe that i'd be there if I could, I am pursuing a membership, and my homie has a chapter here...

    Peace....
    test
  20. DaiN

    DaiN King of New Orleans

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    24,171
    whoa...thread was kinda ill...
    test
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